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Ok, I'd just like to note that this won't be easy for me. It's not so much that I'm scared shitless of you, it's just that you were probably one of the most influential people on me when it comes to FE debating. I started off at Nsider as just another scrub that liked the series, in which I first got into debating by reading a few of Denning and Gofry's posts. I eventually found myself disagreeing with a few of the things they said and tried to debate it, failing in the end. I went about through the fandom learning more about the series and started getting more into it. I went back to Nsider and (which was a very bad decision) begun to learn from the likes of people like SoM.

Now, when I got back a few of the older debaters there slowed down, so only people like StrengthOfMorning were left. These people are very, very bad at debating but very, very good at pushing their methods onto other people, and I was one of those other people. Eventually I started being able to use those methods well, which was a very bad thing. This caused my logic to get all screwy.

Another episode in the chain I was linked to FES by my friend, Katie. I was just getting back into spriting so I decided to join up, and later after that Denning was made a moderator and became very active on the board. He spread his knowledge about FE again and it sparked my interest to get better. I started going to other forums, most notably FEFF. When I joined FEFF I was an arrogant scrub, that was seeded first round against you. Needless to say, you raped me. That was great. I decided that I needed to get better, and started to think on the FE series again. I debated Denning casually at FES, while we both weren't that good it was a lot of good practice that I might of missed out on.

Now just a couple months ago Nintend-Fan needed a partner for the FE7 teams debates. I happened to be online at the time and signed up. We still sucked as we started off, but eventually I learned from debating in this community once again and we got heavily better as the tournament closed in on the end. While most of it was due to drop-outs, we eventually met you and Sentenal in the grand-finals. Heh, second place ain't half bad.

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Ok, Isadora and Geitz both come slightly overleveled, each just a few levels away from Party average. Isadora more so. So she isn't gaining tons of experience before Geitz shows up, which'll make me place her at level 3. Which is a really simple level because now we don't have to talk abot experience gains and stuff throughout the debate, as they are at the same level.

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Isadora-/3
HP: 29.5
Str: 13.6
Skl: 12.7
Spd: 17.0(3)
Def: 8.4
Res: 6.5(2.5)
Lck: 10.9(.9)
Con: 6

Geitz-/3
HP: 44(14.5)
Str: 19(5.4)
Skl: 13(.3)
Spd: 14
Def: 12(3.6)
Res: 4
Lck: 10
Con: 13(7)

Offensively Isadora has more Spd against Geitz' massive Str. Isadora's more spd is nice, but she's very limited by her Con, so she can't use massive weapons and still h4x it up. With her lackluster Str stat, that's almost mandatory against a few of the tougher enemies. For example, she has only one more point of AS with an iron lance than Geitz. Axes are out of the question. Geitz has a lot of Str, so if he's doubling he's doing very, very well. Oh, and it just so happens that he doubles well, especially now that the enemies use steel weapons.

Defensively Geitz has a decent lead in Def and a wtfmassive lead in HP, while Isadora has an ok lead in Eva. Geitz is surely the winner because Isadora's lead in eva gets smaller as her weapons get bigger, and because of her bad def and HP, she'll be getting targetted and has the better chance of dying.

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To apply these things I'll use a random Wyvern in chapter 24.

Wyvern10/-
HP: 31
Str: 13
Skl: 8
Spd: 10
Def: 11
Res: 2
Lck: 0

Their AS is brought down to 7 with their Steel Lances. So both double well ... actually, Geitz can use a Steel Axe and still double, Isadora can't. She's obviously going to be using the weapon she can double with. Of course, Geitz still one rounds with an Iron Axe, again, where Isadora doesn't, so he can just use that.

Iron Axe!Isadora: 11.6x2 Mt, 100 Hit, 6 Crt
Iron Axe!Geitz: 17x2 Mt, 100 Hit, 6 Crt

Geitz wins, hands down. Tying across the board with Geitz winning in atk. It's even more important as Geitz is one rounding, whereas Isadora is not. So Geitz can take out a bunch of Wyverns in one turn of combat where Isadora would leave them all just a little hurt. Fail.

Wyvern on Isadora: 13.6 Mt, 23.5 Hit, 0 Crt
Wyvern on Geitz: 10 Mt, 27.8 Hit, 0 Crt

Yeahhhhhhh. Geitz raeps Isadora, needing 18 rounds to be killed. Isadora needs 12-13. Isadora will also be getting targetted more, so Geitz has less to worry about and can frontline recklessly fine. : D

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Overall, Geitz is still winning in defensive parameters only losing out to Isadora in res a little bit more. Then Geitz is gaining in offensive parameters thanks to doubling fine already, and gaining a good bit more of atk. Nothing much has changed, and if you look at the enemies is just shows that Geitz is doubling better and not much else that differs the two. Pre-promo growths ftw.

Other supports? Well Geitz could pull Dart as he doesn't have anyone else that he would rather B support. It's fast enough too, and offers full Eva and Crt, which is something Dart wants. Isadora could get Harken B, but only B because HarkenxLowen is more of a benefit than IsadoraxHarken. Lowen benefits more than Isadora, and HarkenL benefits more than HarkenI. FirexFire.

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Dark affinity ftl.

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Isadora joins... And then there is her own chapter, a desert chapter, and a sidequest with a ton of promoted magic users after that. Then Geitz is joining 1/3 of the way through his chapter. Isadora will probably be level 4, but okay...

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Isadora can often double those mercenaries with an iron sword, while Geitz either misses with an axe and gets hit back or hits with a bow only once.

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And if you don't want to get hit back, she can just use a lance and either dodge the counter or tank it due to the WTA bonus.

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Against anything with a sword or axe, Isadora is clearly winning. Axe users can't hit her, and she can use something like a Silver Sword or Killing Edge and definitely kill them.

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She's a bit more expensive this way, but that's what the lolSilverCard is for. Thank you, Matthew, for letting our units splurge on h4x weapons. Geitz also gets the same treatment, but he doesn't have the WT control.

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Sword users can own Geitz pretty badly. He almost never doubles them, and they have WTA on him. He doesn't have the Evd to dodge Steel Swords and he will be getting hit. His Def is also far from tanky. Isadora can use a lance and most likely dodge.

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Good job showing how Geitz does better against the one enemy class that gives Geitz the largest advantage possible due to him being a Warrior and axes being heavy for Isadora.

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Isadora isn't getting hit. She's getting Evd from supports, has good natural Evd, and has full WT control. Geitz actually needs his HP and Def leads to not die, since he actually gets hit.

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No. Lowen's not going to wait forever to support Harken. That's a terrible idea and he's deprived of bonuses for a vast majority of the game. Lowen can be with Marcus, Eliwood, Isadora, and Rebecca before Geitz joins.

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Sain is excellent if he's available which isn't too unlikely

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Isadora can opt to use lighter weapons to double things she can't double with heavier weapons, while Geitz can never become faster.

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he doesn't have the Atk to OHKO even magic users unless they are unpromoted awful ones

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More Atk wouldn't even help Isadora that much, so her having the Dark affinity isn't a detriment.

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Isadora is getting 25 Crit from her supports almost all the time. On top of her Skl, S ranking a weapon, and Killer weapons, her Crit is going to be very high.

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Against sword users, she can double them with a Killing Edge or Silver Sword and one-round them, while Geitz can never definitely one-round them.

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Geitz has 6 movement to Isadora's 8 movement. She's able to move further per turn and get to more places.

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Isadora can move after doing stuff, besides attacking. She can rescue, trade, and visit and still move afterwards. Geitz can't.

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Oh, and the biggest advantage she has is that she is a gorgeous woman in shining white armour with awesome long blue hair.

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When you use Isadora, you're getting to look at someone way hotter.

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[02:29] <Dragon_Hellfire> DOZ
[02:29] <Dragon_Hellfire> Isadora's looks or Geitz' badassness?
[02:29] <DOZ> tough call
[02:30] <Dragon_Hellfire> Well?
[02:30] <DOZ> Geitz I suppose
[02:32] <Reikken> Geitz
[02:32] <Reikken> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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Geitz is a chunky ugly thing with spikes.

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Isadora is also an honourable knight and a high ranking officer in Pherae's army

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while Geitz is just some scrub that ditched his family to go on a random adventure.

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And I'm glad she has low Con. That means she's smaller and cuter and not some giant woman. Would you rather screw a smaller and cuter woman or some giant fatass?

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Well first off I'll get into enemy placement. Enemies that are most abundant when you get Geitz are wyverns, because the enemy Mercenaries that are around him are most likely going to be killed, and the ones near the arena and such are too far off to consider. If Isadora was doing exceptionally well against them this would be something to consider, but alas she is only doing 20~ dmg per round while taking ~9. Four rounds of combat with the third leaving you at 2 HP is not a good thing.

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Next is the case that he does eventually encounter one of these mercenary fellows. You over exaggerate how often he'll miss. He has 106 Hit with an Iron Axe, and the Mercenaries have about 37 Eva against him. That means he has 81 Hit on them, and when he hits he does 19 dmg to them, almost as much as Isadora with one blow. If you really, really need him to take out sword users he can just use a swordreaver too, purchasable in this chapter.

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Isadora3 Iron Sword:
11.6x2 Dmg, 99 Hit, 6.35 Crt

Geitz3 Swordreaver:
25 Dmg, 100 Hit, 11.5 Crt

More damage + hitting very slightly more + more crt = better.

Of course he still most likely isn't going to be facing these Mercenaries, and the only time that he'll really need to use it is against the Heroes, that Isadora doesn't double so he rapes her against.

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What? With a lance her offense sucks, and because she's being weighed down by 2 for even an Iron Lance, she only has 11 more Eva than before. Half the time she will still be getting hit, and hit for 8 dmg at that, which still kills her in four rounds.

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Uhhh, not really. Pirates have like 30 HP and 5 Def, Geitz one-rounds them. Isadora may survive better against them, but Geitz isn't dying against them at all, so w/e.

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With the same treatment he gets WT control against everything but axe users, which he rapes anyways.

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Swordreaver. More Def + More Eva + More HP + More MT + More Hit = wayyyy better than Isadora.

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Yes, that one enemy is the one that will most likely be encountered often by both of our units because they have tons of range and are abundant later in the game. They are one of the more threatening enemies because of their numbers and their movement, along with above average stats, so I thought it would be very fit to compare our units to them.

Axes are heavy for Isadora, yes, that's not changing much though as she still doubles, so what's your point? Geitz is just that much better than her offensively.

And what about "the one class"? No no no, there are plenty of lance users in this game, you should know this. Cavaliers, Knights, Paladins, Generals, Peg Knights, Falco Knights, Wyverns, and Soldiers, and those units make up a a great sum of the enemies in the game. Geitz is better against lance users you say? Good, he's better against a great some of enemies in the game.

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Bow users he's better against because he has better AS and atk when countering them. Just for quick reference I'll give you --/10 stats when both of them have a Hand-axe and one with Isadora having a Javelin.

Isadora10 Javelin - Handaxe:
21.7 Atk, 102.2 Hit, 15.5 AS
22.7 Atk, 97.2 Hit, 14.5 AS

Geitz10 Handaxe:
30.5 Atk, 96.6 Hit, 16.8 AS

Isadora could WTA and 2 atk from supports and still not pass up Geitz in damage output, and she doesn't double as much as him with ranged weapons. If he really needed to he could just rape them with a long-bow and not take a counter, but there's no need for that.

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Now axe users. Isadora gets WTA with a sword, right? Well Geitz still doubles them, and still does more dmg per blow, and it is very, very likely that he'll be hitting them. So WTA? What? Geitz easily wins here too.

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Sword users. Now I still don't think that Geitz should be facing sword users because there are so many better options for him to be doing, of course if he wants to beat Isadora against them all he has to do is equip a Swordreaver to h4x their HP down to zero.

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Magic users I would give to him just because he can resist a counter from them and still kill them off easily. Of course not at all times should he be using a longbow, so lets just see how well Geitz can handle them. I'll just use the magic users in chapter 26 as an example, both of our units at level 5.

Elfire!Mage:
20 Atk, 99 Hit, 3 Crt, 5 AS ||| 24 HP, 3 Def, 8 Res, 10 Eva

Flux!Shaman:
15 Atk, 92 Hit, 3 Crt, 6 AS ||| 22 HP, 2 Def, 8 Res, 12 Eva

I don't think doubling and hitting is an issue for either of our units. So it would most likely be a comparison of defenses, well it just so happens that Geitz has 27 Mt with a hand axe, so he OHKO's both of those units. Now why would I use a hand-axe? Well because then when the remaining magic users, if any, attack him he will strike back killing that one too. If there aren't any enemy magic users left, then just has to use an iron axe on them.

But how does Isadora compare? To get an Mt high enough to kill the mage in one hit she requires a silver sword, and there's not a ranged weapon that she can use to OHKO. So come enemy phase she fails against them, of on the player phase she fails against them.

Failing or Failing <<<<< Winning or Winning.

Geitz is better against magic users.

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So what this tells us is that Geitz is better against Axe, Lance, Bow, Anima, Dark and Light enemies. Isadora might have a slight lead when it comes to enemy sword users, but that's destroyed when Geitz uses a reaver weapon. It's all the possible too, as he generally uses cheaper weapons than Isadora, notice how he can use an iron axe and get the same effect as Isadora with a silver sword.

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Isadora: Sword Positive, Lance Positive, Axe Positive

looks h4x

Geitz: Sword Positive, Lance Positive, Axe neutral

looks h4x

Isadora has more weapon triangle control, and that's great and all but it really isn't making her better defensively. Geitz has so much offense it carries over to his defense via ranged weapons. Isadora cannot equip ranged weapons and still do good offensively, whereas Geitz can.

0% Chance of getting hit >>>>>>>> 10% Chance of getting hit

And ther's quite a bit of time that she is definitely not evading blows that well. Before she starts to gain supports she will taking blows quite a bit, and she's a very nice target due to her low HP and Def stat.

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Chapter 23x for example has units with hit ranges in the 100's, and all of them attack ranged, most of them targeting Res. Isadora's chances of getting hit? Pretty good. A lot of them dish out half her HP too, oh and some of them have ranged weapons. Isadora's chances of dying? Pretty good.

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Now we're at Geitz' chapter again. The only enemies that she is dodging reliably are the axe users. The others units still have a decent enough hit to hurt Isadora every now and then doing decent damage. They still don't have 'good' hit on her, sure, but they have even worse on Geitz; 0 ftw. The only time that Geitz' has to worry about taking damage is the enemy phase, and he's still not having a good chance of dying. He has a good choice of equipment when it comes to surviving the enemy phase, and his defenses are definitely not bad.

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Is that so? Well if you're completely fine with supporting Marcus and Eliwood, and they do give Lowen superior bonuses and make his offense more bearable for a much longer period of time. And it does give Eliwood a superior B support. Oh, and it gives Marcus a nice A support to make him better lategame as you know.

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Then you have Rebecca, FirexFire. Lowen is surely taking her before Isadora, and Rebecca wants him too. So if the time is an issue for firexfire bonuses, then it's surely an issue for firexdark bonuses. Isadora isn't getting a Lowen support.

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Now her next one up is Marcus, who is getting an A with Lowen, or perhaps a B in the case that Lowen goes to A support Rebecca (When Dart isn't getting used of course). In this case Marcus would get a B with Eliwood, leaving him with only one support spot. Either way, Isadora is getting a B at best.

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Her best support in my opinion is with my unit, Geitz. It starts activating sooner than the Harken, which mostly makes up for the difference between speed, although perhaps not completely. The key reason it is better is because it makes Geitz a lot better. Geitz supports a unit like Dart, who is fine enough to be used, but his other support is Dorcas who just isn't so great. So in the case that Dorcas isn't used then Isadora supports Geitz for the sake of Geitz.

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Of course Harken is getting different bonuses too. However he can be supporting a bunch of other good units that may have a spot open depending on how the events have rolled out, which is very, very likely. First off he can still get a B support with Isadora.

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Just what magic users are he not doubling? Most of them have tomes that weigh them down, and their AS isn't that high aside from Valkyries, in which I think he might have a shot and OHKOing them with certain weapons.

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What do you mean? Atk helps Isadora more than most units because her offense is doubling based, which means 1 Atk is translated to 2 Atk.

What?

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Geitz has about the same Skl, can use Killer Weapons, S ranks rly fast, and gets 25 Crt from supports too. What's your point?

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What the fuck? "definitely"? You just gave me a "Isadora one rounds when she gets a crt" defense, how the hell is that "definitely"? Believe it or not her Crt is not godly enough to Crt reliably, and her support partners are not always in range due to her Mov difference between them and the fact that one unit has to move ahead first.

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And Geitz with a reaver is doing enough damage, surely. He doubles sword users later on, and before then with a reaver he's still close to Isadora's offense, beating her at times even, without doubling. Early on Isadora doesn't have this crt either, so forget that.

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Generally? Yes. All the time? No. Chapter 27 for example is a snow chapter, where Geitz has more Mov than Isadora most of the time. There are chapters riddled with terrain that slows down Isadora quite a bit, putting them more on par. Now now now, when it really comes down to it you are not sending Isadora out on her own; she'll still be with the main group. That's good and all, but what I'm getting at is when forests start showing up on the map, Isadora will, in fact, fall behind your group.

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If it's just running out to kill that one extra enemy that makes this a lead worth noting in your opinion, longbow.

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This is a use in like Geitz' chapter, and that's about it. Moving after visiting is nice for moving back with the group, but it's nothing exactly worth noting because it's not as if a unit that isn't a paladin will fall behind if they don't move the extra square.

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"Awesome"? Ahahahahhh. Isadora's shade of blue in her hair shows that very soon it will be turning gray. Have you actually looked at the sprite? The middle shade of blue, which I believe is the best one to compare. The green is 6 notches up from the red, where the blue is 8 notches up from the green. The green is at 13 notches. That's very unhealthy hair as it has far too much red and the colours are not split away from each other that far.

Now if you go to look at Geitz' hair, the first thing that you notice is the red is 10 notches above the green, while the green is only at 5 notches. That shows that there is not much distortion in his intended red-ish purple hair. How purple is it? Well the blue is at 13 notches; quite enough indeed. Geitz' hair is farrr healthier than Isadora's.

The texture of her hair leaves much to be desired as well. Now the game does leave out a lot, but Isadora's hair is very knotted up as you might be able to indicate from how far her hair goes back. She's so worried about how the front of her hair looks that she never takes the time to brush the back of it. Massive fail. Sure Geitz' isn't much better in this regard, but he's a man, he doesn't have time to do girly shit like that. Instead he just goes out and makes one of the most awesome haircuts ever; a mullet.

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When I use her? Oh come on, are you serious? The most time that I will spend looking at my units on the battlefield is the split-second of me jamming the A button when picking a weapon. When it comes to looks all it comes down to is artwork of the characters, because those are the only things that we are going to be fapping to. Ever.

Unless you're going to tell me you fap while playing FE....

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Isadora: Well just looking at her we can tell about the only good thing about her is her long hair, sadly it's knotted and unhealthy so not even that has much weight in her looks. Her breasts look non-existant and her hips are leaving much to be desired, so she's surely not somebody that I'd take to the sheets if she were real.

Her body structure is very boring and generic, not even fapable. She has an ok face, cool?

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Geitz: It just goes on with this man. One of the first things you might notice is the axe. He uses an axe, easily the most manly and badass of all the weapons. The way it's positioned even shows that the way he's going to pull it out will be badass. Why? Well when he goes to grab it he either going to pull it out underhand swinging it all the way around his body which is badass, or that he's going grab it at the top and maybe twirl it around to get it positioned right in his hands which is badass.

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Next you'll notice that he's looking away from the camera. Only lamers stare strait into the camera like some asshat. Sure there are others that don't stare at the camera, but those ones are generally autistic looking while looking away. Geitz is crouching down looking away emotionless, and with a face like his you can only wonder what he's thinking. The only unit that can pulls this off aside from him is Dorcas, who we all know rocks shit in terms of badassness.

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Oh please, I'm sure you can do better than make false accusations to prove your point. We can clearly, clearly see that Geitz gets his Con stat from his muscles. Spikes? Oh gee, welcome to the world of anime-style artwork. Do you know who else has spiky hair? Marcus. Heath. Jaffar. Hector. Matthew. Spiky hair cannot be considered anything but a pro; it just adds a little flavour and difference between hair styles.

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Sounds extremely lame. I've played enough games with boring knights that just talk about swords and shit.

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Sounds badass actually. I'd much rather be running around chopping up people with my axe than sitting back at the castle learning more about stupid things. Isadora spends all that time on weapons, and yet she hardly passes Geitz' in Skl until the end of the game. That's because Geitz' has more hands-on experience than Isadora, and Isadora only begins to learn after she's put into battle. Geitz only slows down because it's just another battle to him, and he doesn't pay much mind to it. He's just there for the fun, while Isadora is some anal bitch.

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Isadora can actually fight the mercenaries with a lance equipped. They will probably just miss and she can't miss. She's not doing exceptionally well, but she's better off than Geitz.
Geitz is recruited on the far right, which is only near pirates and wyverns indeed, which he has little trouble with. Isadora won't be there, though, so her encounters with wyverns are rare. She'll be fighting the large amount of mercenaries and the other enemies up the main path.

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Well let's get into unit placement then. Geitz is in the bottom right corner, and the shop that sells swordreavers is in the top left corner. Wow, he's definitely not getting any of those in this chapter.

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Awesome. Geitz gets to use a really expensive weapon while Isadora gets to use an iron sword. Isadora can equip that same weapon and also kill the mercenaries in two hits. Or she can equip a stronger lance and do the same for less cost. Looks like Isadora is always winning against sword users because she can double them often and use lances while Geitz can't ever double them and uses axes. Either he's doing poorly with a normal axe, not countering with a bow, or costing way more than Isadora by using a super pricey axe.

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Her offense is fine with a lance. She'll two-hit KO the mercenaries just like Geitz will, except at either way less cost or way more Evd and Hit. Even with losing 2 Atk Spd, she doubles everything but speedier sword users. Hell, she can often use an iron axe and still double a lot. Enemies in this game are too slow.

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Wow. Isadora can use killer weapons and spam the other two reavers and be cheaper. She can two-hit KO sword users with a silver lance or have a high shot at a OHKO with a killer lance and cost half as much as Geitz. If she's using a killer lance, she's getting a critical every other hit, and thus costing about a fourth of what Geitz costs.

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Isadora can use the same weapon and not lose at all. Or she can use a killer lance and win by being cheaper and OHKOing every other round, thus being way better for Funds and Combat.

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This isn't FE 6. Wyverns are not that abundant. Oh, and if Geitz is using good weapons and using stuff like the extremely expensive swordreaver, Isadora can use a killer axe and double the Wyvern and kill them really consistently while having more Evd than Geitz. Or she can use a lancereaver and have tons of Evd and still have decent Crit.

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I take that back. Isadora is better against lance users too if she's using a lancereaver, and she has more supports for more Evd and Crit.

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Okay? Both of them are killing unpromoted archers and magic users with that. And Geitz using a longbow totally defeats the purpose of having 1~2 range to counter these enemies. This is like Guy beating Kent in Atk Spd when they both double everything anyways.

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Down to 0? What? Against unpromoted Myrmidons that Isadora can probably OHKO with a silver lance and be cheaper than Geitz? He's not OHKOing mercenaries, cavaliers, or promoted sword users, that's for sure. Isadora can also use a swordreaver, as well, but that's pointless when she can use a lance and be cheaper, I suppose...

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Isn't this the chapter Pent and Louise join you? Neither of these units is going to go way up north to your Lords and the two units that just joined to even fight this things. Pent, Louise, and your Lords will have those garbage enemies long dead before Geitz even goes up there, but I suppose Isadora has a chance at going that far before they're all gone...

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Anyways, in general, Geitz can indeed OHKO the unpromoted guys, while Isadora needs two hits to kill with ranged weapons. The promoted magic users that every single unit in your army can't rape with complete ease? Isadora is better since Geitz loses his OHKOing ability and Isadora has more Hit and Evd.

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Considering prices go Bow > Sword > Lance > Axe, and that Isadora can use all but the most expensive while Geitz is either using the cheapest or the most expensive, Isadora is a cheaper unit. Especially if you're using the super expensive swordreaver.

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Nah. Even in her joining chapter, the enemies have terrible Hit on her. The swordreaver axe fighters are one-rounded by her with an iron lance and can't hit her, and even the guys with lancereavers are balls against her when she's using just an iron axe. When she's got WTA, which is very often, the enemies are very likely to miss.

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Uh, these are all promoted magic users that can potentially rape everyone, especially those Luna!Druids. But you know what's funny? Half of them will be killed before they can even attack thanks to Kishuna being a moron.

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She's dodging everything pretty reliably. Unless you plan on letting her fight without healing her for several turns, she's not going to die in a single turn unless you're doing things with her that nobody would ever do. The same would go for Geitz...but he doesn't have as much Evd and he has significantly less Res.

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Marcus is terrible in the lategame. Why would Lowen want to support him and not get any Atk and have to drag along a weak old man in the later half of the game? Lowen is indeed Eliwood's best B, and Hector is Eliwood's best A, so that makes Eliwood very full.

Marcus has very low Atk Spd and just low stats all around besides Skl and Res. Unlike Isadora, he doesn't double attack nearly as much and has way less Evd. He's losing in durability and losing in offense; Isadora has tons more Crit from her supports.[/

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Rebecca is an archer and she's a pain in the ass to use in the earlygame due to no durability and garbage offense. Her being a sniper later on will force Lowen to move slower and shield her. If he's with Isadora, movement is never an issue and they can both run around and do stuff. Rebecca is never winning over Isadora on the enemy phase and is in the worst class to Isadora being in the best class. Rebecca is giving Lowen 2 more Atk that will almost never make the difference in one-rounding or not. Lowen's support with Isadora is more convienent in terms of movement and actually faster in amount of turns, which makes up for it starting a bit later.

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Hell naw, dawg. Eliwood needs more offense, not more durability, so he's not going to be with Marcus. Marcus will be dropped by the end of the midgame due to sucking so much, so Eliwood will sooner take his super fast support with H4xtor, which at least gives him a little bit of Crit instead of a little bit of Hit.

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It's clearly not Geitz. Isadora will take the 1 Atk over the 1 Def/Res any day because she's evasive and not a tank. And Geitz joining sooner doesn't make up for the turn difference. Isadora will hit her A with Harken before her A with Geitz easily.

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Why would I want to make Geitz better at the expense of making Harken worse?

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Harken is much better than Geitz, and giving him an A with Isadora when he's likely to have no other options is much more beneficial than giving an A with Geitz when Geitz's other options at least exist and he's not as good as Harken anyways.

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I'd much rather make Harken, a godly unit on his own

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Wtf? Where was "not doubling" even mentioned? I said OHKO, not one-round KO. Even Karla one-rounds unpromoted magic users, so Geitz being able to one-round them is not an accomplishment if everyone else can do it.

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Isadora's offense is more reliant on her Crit, which is massive with supports and weapons that she can indeed afford. Adding 2 Atk to her offense isn't going to suddenly let her one-round armours with an iron axe or paladins with an iron lance, so it's not helping her anywhere near as much as Crit.

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Isadora is fine even without Geitz due to her larger, faster, and better list.

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He has a B in axes and a B in bows when he joins. Isadora joins with an A in swords three chapters before Geitz joins, and she has a B in lances and a D in axes. She's definitely going to have an S in swords way before Geitz S's either of his weapons. She could even get an S in lances before Geitz gets the same in either weapon type.

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Don't need a critical if using a silver sword.

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Isadora can use a killer lance and do better than swordreaver Geitz in every area besides raw Atk. This was already proven.

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He doubles sword users later on? What? 20/15 Geitz isn't doubling the nomad troopers or heroes in VoD, while Isadora is. She has two shots to land a critical and one-round them while Geitz has only one chance to do so.

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She has 1 less Mov in forests and snowstorms than Geitz does, but 2 more Mov on all other terrain which makes up 90% of the terrain you traverse throughout the entire game. Saying their movement is anywhere near the same is a ridiculously statement. In indoor chapters like the beastly hard Battle Before Dawn, Isadora is wtfraping Geitz in usefulness. She can charge ahead with Lowen or a random RNG blessed Marcus or something and help in stopping the the thieves, saving Jaffar, saving Zephiel, or all three. After the first turn, she's 2 spaces ahead. Then 4, then 6, then 8, etc. And there is no terrain to slow her down.

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Geitz has the same range as Iron Sword!Isadora when he's using a Longbow. He's never winning range.

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There are villages, shops, and secret shops throughout the entire game pretty much. And she can move after trading and rescuing, which is applicable in every chapter. Face it: it's something Isadora can do that Geitz can't ever do, and it's useful.

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Wtf I don't speak Pixel and I don't think the judges do either, so I don't even know where you're going with this. I just know that when I look at their hair, Isadora's looks much better.

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There's more time than just that, and her sprite is clearly better if you turn the animations on. Shiny white armour ftw.

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Wtf stop looking at ugly pictures or something. The first picture I posted was both sexy and badass. She's not even holding a weapon; she's going to just beat the face in of whatever enemy she's about to fight and apparently even jumped off her horse to do so.

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Her body structure is female and smaller. This is always a plus in sexiness and fapability, and she clearly rapes Geitz in both areas.

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She also looks alive, unlike Geitz the Zombie.

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And Isadora is using a sword, which shows that she has grace and skill. While Geitz is wildly swinging his axe around like a moron, Isadora is fighting with grace and honour. Her swordplay is like an amazing dance, and it leaves her foes unable to fight back properly. She dances around her foes and slices them up beautifully without getting hit herself.

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He's trying to be badass and act emo. Isadora looks at the camera because she's respectful enough to have eye contact with people and not afraid to show off her pretty face and eyes.

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Wtf? Where did I mention his ugly armour having anything to do with his Con? Oh, wait, I didn't reference the two together at all. I'm not even talking about his hair with the spikes. I'm talking about that ugly ass Warrior armour. Wooooooo~

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Nah. He just got bitched by his daddy and left like a wuss, ditching his fortune and everything. What a moron. Isadora is smart enough to stay in the military and become a high ranking officer. This means she'll be wealthy and be able to support a family and stuff, while Geitz is not capable of such and will be poor.

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Geitz one rounds Wyverns, Isadora 2 rounds Mercenaries. If those are the units they will be fighting, Geitz is doing better. However the Wyverns do tend to fly over to the town area, in which Isadora has a good chance of encountering them. She's not good against them, Geitz is still winning.

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He won't need them unless you are going to be fighting the heroes with him. True he doesn't get it in time to fight the mercenaries, but the he also won't get to the mercenaries in time to fight them.

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She's obviously using an iron sword because if she were to equip the same weapon as Geitz than she wouldn't double, thus making him do massively more damage than her.

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Can't ever double? Even in his starting chapter he's only a couple points away from doubling them, he has a 40% Spd growth, it won't take long for him to double sword users. Even so the point is he shouldn't be facing sword users much, meaning that he won't have to use that expensive weapon, but have the funds in his pocket to use it if the sutuation ever happens to come up.

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If she can use those heavier weapons, then Geitz can double too. Even if Geitz happens to miss, when he's using a good weapon then him hitting only one of his attacks he's still doing around how much Isadora is doing, if both hits he's blowing her out of the water again.

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What? Her killing with one hit is costing only half as much as Geitz, her killing with two hits is costing more than Geitz.

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No, if she uses the same weapon she loses in everything but Hit, which she ties in. Swordreaver!Geitz >>>>> Swordreaver!Isadora. OHKOing every other round? How about just killing normally every other round before crit?

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What? Geitz one rounds lance users with cheap weapons and atk, Lancereaver!Isadora relies on a crt. Geitz >>>>

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You may equip ranged weapons because magic users and archers are around, but hell if they are the only unit around. There are still other units that will run up on you while you have a ranged weapon, and Geitz fares better against these units as easily demonstrated in the statistical comparison.

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You were jsut talking about them not encountering the enemies that are nearby, so how will they encounter the ones that are far away? Whatever, Geitz can just one-round the sage in this chapter with a long bow, you know, doubling and all. That stays consistent for most the game. He wins in Eva if he's using the long bow due to not being in range of damage, and you bring up hit? Geitz has more Skl and longbow....

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Now first you have to consider that she's going to need a turn to go grab a weapon that isn't a silver sword for more practical use. When she starts to get to combat you will have Wyverns and Fighters, meaning if she equiped a sword for the wyverns, the Fighters raep her. So it comes down to her using a lance, in which case the enemy Wyverns can still hit her quite well and do good damage. She is definitely not dodging reliably enough to make up for her bad defenses.

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Umm, actually in this chapter Kishuna will move so the enemies that weren't able to attack you can well, attack you. For example go to this chapter and hit end, you see him move and a Sage will bolting target your forces. He's only there for four turns anyways, and you won't be moving fast thanks to all the things blocking your path. Half of them dead? With 8 units split up you can't even reach half of them.

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She dodges but it does not take much for her to die. Even if there was a small chance of her dying, I wouldn't put her in the situation. Geitz doesn't fail massively in Eva, so he still evades decently, but his other defenses such as HP and Def are solid enuogh to know when he's going to die and when he's not. That's >>>>> "oshit MISS MISS!!!! phew"

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Marcus is still good around midgame for having a level-lead on the rest of your team, and with the right supports and the fact he doubles most units lategame he's not so much of a detriment there. Overall though, Lowen will only be supporting Isadora 22-VoD(unless you can prove to me that I should bring Isadora along), where Lowen could be supporting Marcus 12->25~, and if it matters the Lowen x Marcus support is very slightly faster.

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Helping Lowen more + Supporting Isadora w/Geitz >>> Helping Lowen less and not supporting Isadora w/Geitz

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I don't see how she is hard to use early game as the maps and the fact the enemy units are drastically outweighing yours allow her to move behind the frontlines without being in danger very easily. Later on she doesn't need the offense so much and is a great decoy when needed.

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Rebecca may not be winning on the enemy phase, but Isadora is not doing wtfh4x then either. Rebecca is, however, winning on the player phase. We should know by now that the player phase > enemy phase because that is the time that you clear out the enemies. Offense is the greatest defenses, all that shit.

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"actually faster in amount of turns, which makes up for it starting a bti later"!?!?!?!? What? No way. It may be 40 turns faster but Rebecca x Lowen is building for 12~ chapters before Isadora. Backliner x Frontliner is the fastest kind of building support, so that easily counterweights the fact that Lowen has the same Mov as Isadora AND then some. The times that these two supports are activated are soooo different it's just plain retarded to compare the two. Lowen and Rebecca can quite possibly have an A by the time Marcus shows up.

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And fact is that if you're using Rebecca then Rebecca will be supporting Lowen for the sake of Rebecca. Who else will she be supporting? Wil? Rebecca loses out on mad bonuses if you don't support the two of them. Rebecca isn't exactly a horrible unit either, so you will have her on your team often enough, screwing Isadora out of a support.

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Uhhh, what? Getting Harken B offers 1 Atk. Getting Harken A offers 1 Atk. So yeahhhh, what the hell are you talking about?

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Yeah, I know it doesn't make up for the turn difference but the difference that it makes for Geitz outweighs the difference it makes for Isadora and Harken. Sadly enough you cannot just ignore my unit when comparing supporting options. If Isadora benefits a little bit less while Geitz benefits a lot more than you support Geitz, beacuse plain and simple fact it makes the team better and not just your unit.

Since when the hell did it matter how good the unit is? Yeah Harken is wayyy better than Geitz but if supporting Geitz is more benficial for the team than that is the support that you take. Geitz gaining Hit >>>> Harken gaining Hit.

Using Dorcas has about the same chance as not using Lowen, in which case Harken is free to support inbetween the chain links that Lowen broke. If that made sense....

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Now, bringing up that her offense is reliant on crit doesn't make that 1 atk translate into 2 atk anymore, right, but instead it now translates into 4 atk making it that much more valuable to Isadora. If she needs two crits to kill and assuming she actually gets it, 6 atk. Gigantic.

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Sure she maxes out her weapon ranks faster, but Geitz does get it fast enough to make that extra little bit of crt. The time that he S-ranks axes will be a bit before the time that Isadora's crt is reliable, so the fact that she has that extra 5 crt on him doesn't mean that much because it's nothing to rely on at the time. We don't play this game on risks.

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Which might I add is probably the biggest thing that Geitz has over Isadora. When using Geitz you know what you're getting defensively and offensely without fear of failing as long as you play your cards right. With Isadora it doesn't matter how you play your cards, you're just relying on that lucky dodge or that lucky shot; more apparent earlier in her instance. During the times that you didn't get lucky, your tactics for that turn fall to shit, and that's all because mis-unreliable failed to be reliable, what a surprise.

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Isadora with a Silver sword has worse offense than Geitz with a killer axe by a grand amount. She has worse of both atk and crt, and because Geitz is hitting fine enough and doubles a vast majority of the time, if Isadora is doing ok with a Silver Sword, then Geitz is a god.

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What? No he doubles most of the Nomad Troopers and Heroes, only a few he doesn't. I don't even think that the Nomad Trooper he can't double is using a sword.

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She has one less mov at the point in the game that your units generally have the lowest mov. For example on normal terrain Geitz has 75% of the movement that Isadora does, whereas on forests and in the snowstorm Isadora has 66% of the mov Geitz does. You still didn't counter the defense I made on the fact that she will still be sticking with the team up until those terrain changes occur, in which case she is falling behind the team.

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And you overexaggerate her ability to move forward. She is not a reliable unit when it comes to defenses, and definitely not as early as Battle Before Dawn so while you may intend for her to go save those units or kill the thieves, there's always the very likely case that she just gets killed. A smarter tactic would be for her to not do that, and just send your other 3 paladins ahead to raep, leaving Isadora where she belongs; next to Merlinus preparing our victory meal. Yeah, if you decide to send Isadora ahead not only do we lose a unit, but we lose food which causes spirits to go down. That's pretty fail.

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I posted the official artwork which holds the most weight when comparing the two characters. Other artwork can have minor distortions on the character actually looks. If I was to paint you, or take a photo of you, obviously the picture would look more like you. When looking at the official artwork (photo), Isadora is definitely not hot

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Ok, what part of when picking male characters you go by badassness do you not understand? Of course I'd rather fap to Isadora than Geitz, I'm not retarded. But measuring them both on their own scales and then comparing them we can see that Geitz' badassness >>>>> Isadora's sexienss.

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That is the most boring load of shit. "Grace and skill", come on dude, that's not even cool. Everyone knows that the people that are known for being hardcore awesome are the people who don't bullshit and fuck you up with manpower. Chuck Norris, Vegeta, and of course, the Juggernaut. All of them are hardcore awesome and all of them are far more reliant on their stats > yours than the "oh maybe if I try!" horseshit. To top it off Isadora isn't even more skillful, she relies on the lightness of that sword to operate in combat. Geitz' skill allows him to use that axe.

Isadora fails at everything combatively.

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You speak of raising a family but you know that if Isadora were to ever have kids she would just be staying at home smoking cheap brand cigarettes while slaving over the stove because Harken in this man in the pairing and he's the one off making the money. Luckily that most likely won't happen because Isadora is getting fucked by Harken. Isadora and Harken. I don't know who, but I know that sometime somebody is going to pull out and start crying.

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-Geitz wins against lance users
-Geitz wins against bow users
-Geitz wins against anima users
-Geitz wins against light users
-Geitz wins against dark users
-Isadora wins against sword users
-Geitz is more badass than Isadora is sexy
-Geitz is doing whatever the fuck he wants
-Isadora is doing what everybody else wants
-Isadora and Geitz both double fine
-Geitz has massively more atk
-Isadora has a less iffy B support
-Geitz can use larger weapons easier
-Isadora can move after rescuing
-Geitz can resist a counter in every situation