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| Jeigan vs Inui | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 23 2007, 12:17 PM (553 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | Jul 23 2007, 12:17 PM Post #1 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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i dun wanna slay a jeigan fan
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| Big Boss | Jul 24 2007, 03:16 PM Post #2 |
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you don't have to >_>; Ahem... vs ![]() First problem I see with Garret is that one of his eyes is squished, and his sprite is weird overall. Cecilia, on the other hand, has gorgeous hair and a beautiful color scheme. Cecilia's sprite is much more appealing. Moving on to plot factors. At the end of chapter 8x, Narshen and a bunch of wyverns arrive at Ostia, leaving Roy and co. in a difficult situation. However, Cecilia comes and saves the day! If it weren't for Cecilia, the Lycia Alliance Army would have lost that day. Then, chapter 13. Almighty King Zephiel lands a critical on Cecilia. Her HP is in the negative 40s or something, yet she survives. That's awesome. While all that happens, Garret is looting villages, pretending to be a not so bad guy by "not killing moar than necessary". Pfff! If he's going to be a brigand, he might as well do it right. Garret phails. Now, for the gameplay stuff, I will talk a bit about supports... Cecilia has a 30/+2 support with Percival. Percival is a unit with excellent stats, but usually lacks full supports. If Cecilia is in play, he'll gladly take an A support with her for the wonderful Anima affinity bonuses. Roy has B supports with Alan and Lance, leaving him with one more open slot for a C support. Cecilia and Roy only need to stand near each other for 20 turns to get the smexy benefits of an Anima-Fire support. As for Garret. He has the shitty Wind affinity and he will be getting only A Gonzales. Also, note that the bonuses are mediocre. Only half of everything and full Crt and Crt evade. Cecilia clearly offers more benefits to other units. Now, for some other stuff... Cecilia has a better class. High mobility, experience bonus, 1~2 range, targets RES and can use staves. Garret only has that Crt bonus over her, and could have 1~2 range, but he needs to rape his Hit for that. Cecilia has much more advantages thanks to her class. Having an extra healer is very useful. You can heal more units in the same turn, and thus, advance faster. She will often use Restore, since the annoying status staves appear very often in this game. Other high level staves can also be used by Cecilia. If you go to Sacae, Garret is obsolete. He misses a lot, so he's hurting the combat rank, and his durability is bad due to his low Def. Cecilia has utility on both routes. Cecilia is more friendly to your ranks and is more useful, overall. Finally... ![]() I'd hit that <3 |
![]() ^^by comatose from NationalSigLeague^^ Kratos/Jeigan | |
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| +Ema Skye | Jul 27 2007, 02:34 PM Post #3 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Lulz, no. Lalum and Klein are available to support Percival and they don't suck like Cecilia does. Anima affinity bonuses? They're not good with Dark, so that doesn't matter. Lalum actually gives better bonuses since she gives full Crit.
Roy can also have a C with Lilina, Marcus, Sue, Thany, or Lalum. All of these units happen to be better than Cecilia and the Marcus and Thany supports start much earlier, and Lilina's is instant. Cecilia gives the best bonuses by a bit, but Roy having good bonuses for the whole game is better than having slightly better bonuses for a little over half of the game. And this is only a C we're talking about, anyways, so Roy will definitely snag one of these pplz before Cecilia exists.
The Wind affinity is indeed shitty, but it helps out both him and Gonzales by gracing these axe users with a bit more Hit and even more Crit to make their Crit even more h4x. Gonzales is often going without an A support due to Lilina being balls, Bartre not existing most of the time, Dayan not joining until super late and sucking anyways, and Treck sometimes dying before you even recruit him. His second fastest support is with Garret, so he'll take Garret and get some needed Hit and even more Crit. Echidna is his B, as we both know...
She joins in a desert chapter, so there goes that high mobility in her joining situation. Cecilia will be at a higher level than Garret when Garret joins, so even with that EXP bonus, she's not helping the Experience rank any more than he is. She targets RES? Yes, with her amazing 11 MAG base with a 35% growth, she'll surely be doing heavy damage! And her h4x base of 10 SPD with a 25% growth ensures constant doubling. Only beasts like Marcus and Zealot manage to be faster! Garret joins with way more Atk, a bit more SPD, and a massive Crit lead. He's doing much better in Combat, which is a rank actually hard to S in this game. Indeed, her class is better. Too bad her stats are so massively sucky that Garret is better anyways.
Saul and Clarine have your staves covered for the early game, and they actually don't suck massively due to having SPD. When Cecilia joins, the likes of Lugh and Ray are nearing promotion, so then lower level staves can be handled by them while higher level staves by the other two. And super late in the game, you can even have Niime handle staves better than Cecilia does.
If you go to Sacae, Cecilia is even more obsolete due to being killed in a single phase by nomads and nomad troopers. Let's give her that C Roy, and be generous with a C Douglas since dragging Douglas into Sacae is usually a decent idea since he has nearly infinite durability and can do things like carry Roy around and such. Let's also give her a whole level every chapter even though she joins overleveled and sucks massively at fighting and is outclassed in healing by two other units that are at a lower level and will tend to get priority in staff usage. Cecilia: 20/8 w/ C Roy/C Douglas(Thunder/Elfire) HP: 34.2 Atk: 20.4/22.4 Hit: 108.3/103.3 Crit: 15/10 Atk Spd: 11.8 Evd: 45.4 Crit Evd: 18.8 Def: 9.4 Res: 15.8 Here be a nomad trooper, and there be many of these in Chapter 18. Average Nomad Trooper(Bow/Sword) HP: 43 Atk: 21/24 Hit: 119/109 Crit: 18/8 Atk Spd: 20/18 Evd: 49 Crit Evade: 9 Def: 12 Res: 7 So it's going to double her even with the steel sword, and it has a very low chance of missing with either weapon. It might as well be a definite hit when he uses the bow. It does 24 damage with the bow and 30 damage with the sword, leaving her in a state of near death in just one turn. All's it takes now is a single little nomad to attack her, and she dies. And the Def/Res difference is only 3-5 in Sacae, while Garret's Atk lead is much larger than that. Garret: 20/5 w/ C Gonzales(Iron/Killer/Hand) HP: 57.6 Atk: 30.3/33.3/29.3 Hit: 107.1/107.1/92.1 Crit: 43/73/43 Atk Spd: 12.2 Evd: 40.5 Crit Evd: 19.1 Def: 10.6 Res: 5.2 And you said Garret missed? There are situations where he's actually winning in Hit. He has more Def and almost double her HP, so unlike Cecilia, he's not easily dying in a single turn and can take hits. Even though Cecilia is attacking Res, Garret is outdamaging her by a lot. If he's fighting a sword user, he can use a swordreaver and easily rape it. On his turn, he can attack a nomad trooper with a killer axe and almost surely kill it. And Garret has the funds to do both. He doesn't need to be promoted and his weapon type is much cheaper than Cecilia's; in fact, Garret uses the cheapest weapon type. At 3 levels lower and with 1 less support, Garret is winning everywhere but Hit and Res constantly. After Sacae, Douglas is rendered worthless, and she's out a support, while Garret gains more supports. Garret will probably not catch up in levels due to the EXP bonus, but he won't be gaining less EXP because he's at a lower level. He's outperforming her even at a lower level.
Which ranks? Garret actually kills, so he wins Combat. Garret uses a much cheaper weapon type, so he wins Funds. Garret kills things before they kill you and doesn't die himself, while Cecilia heals peoplez, so they might as well tie in Survival. Cecilia would win Tactics if she could actually use her high Mov without being raped, but she really can't, while Garret can move without instantly dying and can actually clear enemies away, so this is probably a tie. |
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| Big Boss | Jul 29 2007, 09:06 PM Post #4 |
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Lalum would only get B Percival seeing how Echidna offers full defense, is faster (starts earlier + higher friendship base) and Echidna and Lalum have similar movement. Klein is a unit with mediocre stats and a bad class, so he's not being used a lot. However, if he and Cecilia are being deployed, Percival would take the extra Atk from Cecilia over the extra Hit from Klein. Not to mention the Cecilia support is faster.
Later in your post, you mention Lilina is balls, so no need to counter that. Marcus gets outclassed and dropped from the team very early, so if I'm planning to use Cecilia, Roy's support with her would be in effect for more time than if he had supported Marcus, and Cecilia gives better bonuses. Lalum is already full because of Echidna and Percival, and Sue and Thany may not be used and the'r support with Roy grows at 1/+1 and they have Wind affinity. Eww...
Her move is on par with the rest of your units, except magic users, so that's not a problem. Also, Clarine, your primary user, has less move here. Cecilia can reach wounded units with more ease Cecilia not helping the Exp. rank more than Garret? wtf? Cecilia would be like level 2 by the time Garret joins, so she's not gaining less exp than him. And Cecilia will reach a higher level by endgame because she can both heal and attack, and when healing, she's not taking experience away from other units, because usually there is more than 1 wounded unit. And then there are the staves like Physic, sleep, restore, etc. I don't know where you are getting this idea of Cecilia not being better for the experience rank. Also, since you were kind enough to mention Cecilia's joining situation, allow me to go into further detail: Cecilia. Level 1. 30 HP, 11 MAG, 30 Avo, 7 Def, 13 Res Clarine. Level 15/0. B Rutger, C Dieck. 20.6 HP, 6.2 Mag, 64.1 Avo, 5.4 Def, 12.6 Res- Saul. Level 15/0. 26 HP, 8 Mag, 32.5 Avo, 3.5 Def, 10 Res. Comparing Cecilia with the characters that could be your main healer. First thing to note is that Cecilia actually has offense. Then, we see that Cecilia heals for more HP than both of them, and Cecilia clearly beats Saul in durability. Against Clarine, durability is more debaetable. If Lugh is promoted, then he is healing for more HP than Cecilia, but Cecilia can afford some Mend staff uses since she didn't need a promo item, anyway. Overall, Cecilia's joining situation is looking very good.
Granted, she won't double at all. But since usually you aren't one rounding enemies, anyway, any damage she can deal is helping. Garret is doing better in combat against certai stuff, like some wyverns at his joining chapter, but when he has to fight sword wielding enemies and nomads, chances are he won't even hit. You overrate how much he is helping the combat rank. While Cecilia may not be better than Garret combatwise, she's helping the team in other ways (staves, exp rank.)
Earlier in this post I mention how good Cecilia is when she joins, and there is always enough people damaged so having two healers is not by any means a bad idea. Furthermore, Lugh also has a combat role to fulfill, so he's not always healing. Niime? Pfff... that old thing is as fragile as toilet paper, and joins way later. Other units are better than Cecilia. So what? This is low tiers. If we were to apply this argument against Garret, well, we have Dieck, Lugh and a Cavalier promoted by the time he joins, beating him. If Lott is used, he would be promoted by now, would have some sexy support with Dieck and would be beating Garret as a primary axe user. Miledy would have gained some level ups and is starting to be h4x, and the all amazing Percival joins in chapter 15 as well. And guess what? These units actually don't suck massively due to having SPD. So yeah, this little argument of yours is hurting Garret more than it's hurting Cecilia.
20/8 is a good estimate level seeing how is always enough people to heal, she can attack every now and then and she is not outclassed as far as healing matters go. Note that Cecilia could have B Percival by now, giving her 1 Atk, 1 Def, 5 Hit, 10 Avo, 5 Crt and 10 Crt evade. Now, why in the world would you leave Cecilia, or any healer for that matter, open to enemy attacks? Unless you really screw with your formation, Cecilia should never get attacked. To help that, she has a horse, enabling her to do her healing job and then move to the back.
If you actually factor B Percival, and Cecilia's option of using Fire she's winning in hit. Also, with B Percival, Cecilia has as much Defense as Garret, lulz. Anyway, going by that Nomad sample you posted, if it has a bow, it deals 20.8 damage per round to Garret. Only 2 of them were needed to kill Cecilia. 3 are needed to kill Garret. That isn't a huge improvement, rly. In fact, I would say Cecilia survives better, because Garret actually has to be at the frontline to do his job, so he is much more likely to get attacked by these guys. Also, you have to explain me how 58 Hit and 64 means "he almost surely kills it (the Nomad Trooper)" Against sword users, he can go ahead and equip a swordreaver, but he loses the 30 Crt bonus from the killer axe, and gets doubled, so his chance of OHKOing is also mediocre at best.
Combat? He misses half of the time, and when he hits, you have to rely on a critical to actually kill in one round. Funds? Since you seem to like to use Killer axes and Swordreavers constantly, he might as well be losing here. Survival? Garret is also really frail, and is more likely to get attacked, and doesn't heal ppls. So it's easy win for Cecilia here. As for Tactics, the act of healing is what helps, by having more healers your units receive constant treatment and can proceed faster, instead of having to wait another turn for your main healer to heal them. |
![]() ^^by comatose from NationalSigLeague^^ Kratos/Jeigan | |
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| +Ema Skye | Jul 30 2007, 04:49 PM Post #5 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Percival gets B Lalum and A Klein. Lol @ Cecilia being with Percival. You see, Percival is an amazing unit with amazing statistics. He likes to be able to do whatever he wants. He frontlines and tanks. How is he supposed to do this with Cecilia near him? Even with Evd from supports, her Evd is lower than Marcus and Zealot's even. She has awful durability. Forcing Percival to drag her along hinders Percival and isn't worth 1 Atk. Interestingly enough, Percival's only poor parameter is Hit. He loves the Hit from Klein, especially in Sacae. He has high Str and axes and high weapon levels...he's not worried about getting 1 Atk or not. Hit, however, is much better for him than any other bonuses. And Klein, regardless of his terrible class, actually has very high Evd and good durability and actual offense. Cecilia doubles almost nothing while Klein has actual Spd.
Lilina is still probably > Cecilia. If she's being fielded, she gets Roy's C easily, and then Gonzales wants her, so she'll have supports when Cecilia joins and actual offense from her massive Atk. And even the slow Lilina is faster than her after promotion. Who cares if it's 1/+1? This is only a C we're talking about. Thany can get that way before Cecilia even joins. Who cares if it's Wind? Both affinities give Roy what he needs; Atk. So either Roy gets 1 Atk and 2 Evd for a long time with a unit that can actually double things and not die in a second, or he gets 1 Atk and 5 Evd from a unit later on that sucks massively at both offense and defense... Yah, find some new supportz for her.
I'd think she would be level 3 when he joins, but okay. 14, 14x, half of 15... She's not getting to use those staves, though. The unpromoted healers get priority over her because they need the EXP. She doesn't. Saul and Clarine need to promote soon, so they get to use the yummy high EXP staves. Garret kills things and can actually live on the enemy phase, so he gains fine EXP.
Cecilia's offense might as well not exist. She can't even damage fellow magic users without something like Elfire, and even then it's 1-3 damage. She has 10 Atk Spd. Didn't your units have that about ten chapters ago? She gets doubled by those Mercenaries and other things, even. Clarine is clearly stomping her into the ground in durability without even finishing her supports. By chapter 15, they'll be finished. And Saul has 0 supportz, uh ohz. Oh wait, Saul makes up for that here since he has his full 5 movement. So, Clarine has durability and makes other units better, and Saul has movement, so... Who's winning again?
Never doubling is terrible. I'd be more inclined to use Marcus for the whole game than to field Cecilia since he has supports and durability and more Spd. Some? More like all of them. He has axes. They attack him, lolmiss, and then get raped on the counter. The ones that use steel lances also have terrible Atk Spd and can get doubled and almost definitely one-rounded. Swordreaver is rape. He doesn't need a promotional item, so he can afford a swordreaver or two. This makes sword users pretty helpless against him. However, poor Cecilia gets doubled by them and has no HP or Def to soak up the blows, as well as poor Evd... Staves? Clarine and Saul clearly rape her and get priority when it comes to using staves. If a unit is injured, who gets to heal them? Certainly one of those two before she does. And then once Lugh and Ray promote, she's out of the job entirely.
She's awful when she joins. She has no mobility in her joining chapter and is doubled by Mercs/other things and has no offense due to poor Atk and not doubling. In the next chapter, she still sucks massively. She can't even double those Archers and Pirates. That's awful. Lugh can fulfill his combat role indeed. Clarine and Saul can heal. When Clarine and Saul promote, all four of your magic users can both heal and attack. Cecilia won't be needed at all. Niime can just heal with Physic from half of the map away. And when she has to attack, she actually has an Atk parameter worth something.
No. There's much more fighting to be done than healing, and Garret is only losing to anyone else because of just Spd. Cecilia not only has massive Spd problems, but she loses to everyone in everything but Res. There's tons and tons of enemies you need to fight, and some chapters are ridiculous, like 21. Cecilia fails at fighting. She can't even double the steel lance wyverns and gets doubled far too often given her poor Evd and defences.
I do believe that Percival is too busy deficating on both her on and the enemies to support her, as I've explained, and also wants hawt yaoi smex with Klein more than he wants anything from Cecilia. And those bonuses don't stop her from dying. Uh, the enemies in Sacae are either mounted bow users or flying lance users. They have tons of range. If she's out of range of the enemies, then she's not even on the field or usable. It's a point against Cecilia. Garret has tons of HP over her, as well as some Def. He gets to survive.
That support won't be happening, soz... And so what if she has the same Def? Garret has ~25 more HP. Give her Fire and she does almost no damage and basically can be considered to have no offense. Well, in the chapter I pulled that from, there are lots of forests to camp in, and Garret can sit there with a hand axe and both actually counter and actually live. 20 more Evd and +1 Def gives him much more durability. Cecilia can do the same thing, actually, but it doesn't change that Garret is way more durable and has better chances of killing things. Lulz, worded that poorly. Better than Cecilia's 0% chance of killing them. 64.72 Real Hit and 64 Crit > not being able to kill even with both hitting and landing a critical. At any rate, that's a Trooper, the best enemy on the map. There aren't that many of them. The Nomads are about the same, 'cept they do less damage and are easier to kill. Cecilia still can't kill them, but Garret has better chances now. And I wouldn't doubt that Garret can live for another turn when it comes to normal Nomads. If he equips a swordreaver, he gets double WTA... That's enough for pretty terrible rape.
He doesn't miss half the time. That would require him having 50 Hit all the time. Even against the most evasive enemy type in Sacae, the NT, he has 64.72 Real Hit. Other things will have less Evd, so he has more Hit. Oh, and let's go into Ilia, since it's easier and is basically free Combat points. The enemies here still have enough range to reach Cecilia if she's with your army, but they all have lances and sucky Spd due to being weighed down...so Garret utterly destroys them. He doubles the pegasus knights with steel lances and one-rounds them with just an iron axe, so he doesn't even need killers in that route. The enemies have tons of Res compared to other classes, so Cecilia's offense goes from terrible to not existing. He can afford to use killers and reavers sometimes and still be cheaper anyways. Costs Per Use Hand: 15 Devil: 45 Iron: 6 Steel: 12 Halberd: 45 Hammer: 40 Reaver: 140 Killer: 50 Brave: 75 Silver: 50 Tomahawk: 200 Fire: 14 Thunder: 20 Elfire: 40 Aircalibur: 55 Fimbulvetr: 260 Bolting: 600 Looks like Garret can swap between stuff like Iron and Killer freely and still cost loss than Cecilia unless she's only using Fire. However, Fire has such terrible Mt that her offense plummets into nothingness. She doesn't have high Mag or a Crit boost to make up for it. Hell, she doesn't even have the ability to double to give her some offense. Oh, and this is revealing something else here. Against Cavaliers and Paladins, Garret does massive damage with the Halberd, and is likely to just OHKO Cavaliers. Cecilia can land a Crit with Eflire and still do significantly less damage. Against all armoured units, Garret can certainly one-round them with a Hammer. Massive Atk + WTA + actually doubling them = they die. Cecilia can double them, too, but doesn't kill them anyways. If he can't double, lolBrave Axe. Then he doubles. This makes him kill magic users before they even hit him. Can Cecilia even fight magic users? Nope. Doesn't double them and deals like 2 damage. So, Garret can either be cheaper and be better at combat regardless, or use expensive stuff to rape her terribly at combat and actually kill things. If Garret is frail, wtf is Cecilia? Garret has ~25 HP over her and more Def. "Main healer?" What does this mean? You have Ellen, Saul, and Clarine early on. You can still be using them when Cecilia joins, and you're definitely using Clarine. Lugh can promote and use staves. So can Ray. Niime is a good staff user later on. In addition to those decent units and the two bad ones, you can also have Lilina and Yodel heal things... Cecilia isn't doing anything unique or special with her healing. Garret helps you progress by slaughtering things. He teabags everything in Ilia and teabags Wyverns. |
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| Big Boss | Aug 1 2007, 10:55 PM Post #6 |
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You only need to keep them at 3 spaces from each other. It is very possible to arrange your formation so Percival can frontline and receive Cecilia's bonuses, while keeping her protected. If you want to support him with Klein, Percival won't be able to use his full movement at certain situations.
Okay, in Sacae, if Percival is level 10 and has C Lalum, B Cecilia, with an Iron Sword, he has 85.35 Hit against the Nomad Trooper, which is actually more thanks to how 2 RNs determine hit. Percival's hit is far from poor against the most evasive enemies in the game. Outside of Sacae, with his Lalum and Cecilia's supports and with complete control of the weapon triangle, he isn't having troubles hitting, so that extra attack point actually helps a bit more than Klein's extra hit bonus. Klein has durability, indeed, but his offense is rather poor. As a sniper, his main role is to kill waiverns, but seeing how chapter 21 Wyvern riders have around 14 AS, a level 12 Klein with his 17 AS isn't doubling them. Klein's speed never lets him double reliably, and due to his class, he's pretty much useless during the enemy phase. Klein is very likely to not be used. If Klein isn't used, Cecilia is taking A Percy for sure, if Klein is used, he can get some supports from Tate (full def ftw), Clarine and Dieck.
This Debate is not about Lilina, and I'm not deploying moar low tiers units, thank you.
Nah, Roy needs moar durability because he is stuck at 20/0 for a long time, and I don't want him to attack and hog experience. And by the time he gets C Cecilia, he will probably not be level 20 yet, so he can still use that attack point for a while.
whatever, level 3. She's still getting more experience than Garret because of her class bonus and because she can get experience from both combat and staves. Other healers have priority over those staves, sure, but that doesn't mean Cecilia won't be using them every once in a while. On a side note, other units would also get priority over Garret to use h4x weapons like Killer axes and swordreavers.
Her damage output is good enough to help a bit against physical units. I wouldn't say Clarine is stomping her in durability. Cecilia has 10 more HP, a bit of DEF and a bit of RES. Clarine has more avoid, but it's still not super reliable. Saul has movement, but in the desert, that would only serve to get away of your team and get killed. He's not using his full movement as he needs protection. So Cecilia wins because she heals for more and is more durable.
Agreed. Never doubling is terrible. That's why Garret sucks so much. I'd use Marcus over him. He's a Jeigan. Garret joins with 11.2 Spd. In your own words: "Didn't your units have this 10 chapters ago?" The wyverns in chapter 15 will have around 35 hit on Garret. I'm not sure they would lolmiss all the time. And no, Garret doesn't double shit. Taking a look at chapter 15 samples from your debate against WJC: Mercenary: 17 AS Cavalier: 9 AS Sniper: 12 AS Wyvern Rider: 11 AS Archer: 9 AS Valkyrie: 18 AS Yeah, Garret isn't even doubling those slow wyverns.
You can use a swordreaver, but then Garret becomes more expensive than Cecilia, and those fast sword users still double him. I would rather give that Swordreaver to someone like Gonzales. Lugh and Ray's main use is fighting, so even if they are in play, Cecilia can heal. There is always enough healing to be done.
Cecilia's mobility is average when compared to the rest of your team, except for Lugh, and Saul and Ray if they are in play. About the mercenary, Cecilia can go and attack that mercenary at long range and prevent getting damage. Obviously, Cecilia is not necessary. No unit is, except for Roy, because of seize. Cecilia can use a Physic staff, which is more than what Garret will ever be able to do, and while Cecilia's offense is far from impressive, she can help weakening stuff a bit so other strong units can kill.
Precisely because there is a lot of fighting there is a lot of healing to be done. Both actions are essential to beat the game. Garret sucks because of his speed, which affects both offense and defense. He can never double, his avoid is terrible, and his defense is not good either (we see in our previous posts that Cecilia only has 1 less defense, and they tie when Cecilia is supported). Cecilia is not a good combat unit, but she was made to be a healer, and she can perform that duty with her decent Mag and good mobility. Well, guess what? Those ch. 21 Wyverns with steel lances have 16 Spd and 10 Con, so that's 13 AS. If Garret is level 12 he has 14 AS, he can't double them.. Level 15 Cecilia can't double, but she can use Aircalibur to inflict a good amount of damage so one of your better units can get more experience by delivering the finishing blow. Also, with supports (A Percival, B Roy) said level 15 Cecilia has 60.5 Avoid. An average wyvern rider with 90 Hit has 30 (18.3 real) hit on Cecilia. If Cecilia is in a forest (and there are a lot of them) she is pretty much untouchable. As always, Cecilia can heal, Garret can't. And there will be a lot of healing to be done here.
Those bonuses certainly help her against the chapter 21 wyverns, as mentioned above. Klein would rather have hot incest with Clarine, btw. No, you should never let healers open to attacks. It's not that difficult to do that, you just have to be careful with your formation. Garret may have more HP, but he dies in only 3 attacks of the NTs
Well, Garret is more prone to receive enemy attacks, so he dies easily, even with his huge HP advantage. Also, Fire only has one less Mt than thunder, so her offense gets barely worse. Well, I'm looking at chapter 18 right now. There are some forests at your starting position, but you have to, you know, advance. Then there are also forests at the right side of the map. but that's one spot where enemy reinforcements are coming from, and that's not helping Garret. Furthermore, you have to move towards the center of the map, where the throne is. There are only those house thingies there, but they only offer 10 avoid, which is not saving Garret. If you give Garret a hand axe, he has 43% hit (which is actually less) against the enemy you posted. I tought you were bringing Garret to help the Combat rank?
![]() The above statement (bolded) contradicts your previous testimony.
Soez, Garret can survive another turn if he gets attacked by unpromoted enemies. That still doesn't help his case, as Cecilia isn't even getting attacked. Also, double WTA? I tought reavers only reverse the weapon triangle
Well, if you go to Illia everyone else is still killing better than Garret, so it's not like he's being a big help. So, an average peg has 8 AS. We were using Cecilia at level 8, she only needs one more level to have an average of 12 AS and double it. And she has aircalibur and can afford it 'cuz she's a prepromo. And she can attack from a distance and don't receive damage.
Already pointed how you underrate fire. Cecilia is not the best candidate to use Bolting, and Fimbulvetr is only useable in trial maps, so screw those two. So yeah, the most expensive stuff Cecilia is using is Aircalibur (55G per use), as opposed to Garret's Swordreaver (140G) and then if we factor that Garret is seeing combat more often, we can assume he is moar expensive
Garret doesn't have priority over the Halberd, Hammer and Brave Axe. I would rather have someone like Gonzales, Geese and Lot handle them.
Garret is more durable, yes, but he is also more prone to getting attacked, and thus, less durable in actual practice.
lol, Lilina, Yodel, and Niime. As I said before, I don't want more low tier units in my team. Anywayz, you usually have Clarine and Lugh for sure, but due to the amount of Guiding rings you get, Saul and Ray are questionable units. Sure, you could go and buy some Guiding rings at the secret shop, but that money could be better used in buying weapons and stuff, so they may not be promoting at all. Even if Ray promotes, he is still busy with fighting (same for Lugh) so he can't dedicate all his life to healing. If Cecilia's is in the team, that means she helps Lugh and Ray to fight more as they don't need to spend that much time healing. That's certainly more special than anything Garret can do. He starts bad and ends bad at combat, which is the only thing he can attampt to do, and he is outclassed at it by dozens of characters To finish my post, I'll summarize why Cecilia is better than Garret: -Cecilia looks way better -Cecilia has more relevance to the plot -Cecilia's affinity is more benefical for supports, and Percival becomes wtfh4x when she's in play. -Cecilia is atually looking good when she joins. Garret already starts mediocre. -Garret is only good for combat at Illia. Cecilia can be useful at both routes because of staves and she's good at killling pegs at Illia. Garret doesn't kill reliably at Sacae and dies easily. Furthermore, Cecilia can actually be decent at chapter 21. -Cecilia can have more durability because of her horse. -Another healer is more useful than a mediocre fighter, as you have way more units that can replace him. -Cecilia has access to staves like Restore, Physic, etc. -Cecilia is better for your ranks. Healing helps you advance faster, she gets more level ups and receives exp. bonus because of her class, and helps the survability of the team. Overall, Cecilia is clearly the better choice in a ranked run. That's all. I can say I enjoyed this debaet. I hope you did as well. |
![]() ^^by comatose from NationalSigLeague^^ Kratos/Jeigan | |
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| +Ema Skye | Aug 2 2007, 10:46 PM Post #7 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Percival's usefulness and godliness, in my opinion, comes from his ability to function well in any situation on any chapter without the need of supporters. Having Cecilia, a very frail unit with poor offense, follow him around hinders that. Lol, at least Klein can be with Percival and actually live and fight. Cecilia just dies and can't fight.
The 1 Atk isn't making him one-round anything. He either one-rounds with his high natural Atk, or doesn't one-round because the enemy is something gay with tons of durability and requires a Crit/special weaponry no matter who you are. The Hit, however, stops him from ever missing. And he has chances of missing that I don't like.
I'd wager that Klein would have a higher level than that, and I've yet to encounter SPD issues with him when it comes to doubling those steel lance guys. He has issues against the Wyvern Lords, but that's all I've seen, even with his averages. If Klein's offense is poor, wtf is Cecilia's? She has way less Atk, Hit, and Atk Spd. Hell, she loses to Klein in every single parameter sans Res. Klein can get Tate if she's used, but she's not that good either. And Clarine is full from Dieck and Rutger almost 100% of the time.
Kk, but Lilina > Cecilia, and I think Garret > Lilina, so Garret >> Cecilia. h4x l0g1c thar
2 Evd forever >>> 5 Evd for the lategame
Barely. Cecilia almost never gets to heal when you have other healers handling everything and they're all ahead of her in line. No, they don't. It's not like healing. There's tons and tons of fighting to be done, but only a little bit of healing. You can just give everyone those h4x weapons. And Garret, unlike most of your team, doesn't need a promotional item so he costs 10,000 less than almost everyone by default already. On top of that, he uses the cheapest weapon type.
No. Her damage output is nothing. She can't one-round a nomad even with an Elfire critical and her supports. And they're not high-Res or anything like that. In Ilia, she's doing even worse, since pegasus knights actually are high-Res units. Clarine isn't being hit. That's pretty reliable. The Wyverns in Cecilia's joining chapter have like 2 Real Hit against her, IIRC, and can't OHKO. Saul is more durable because he can run away. And he's way more durable if he has supports since his affinity is Ice and that gives bonuses in all defensive parameters. And it doesn't matter if Cecilia heals for ~3 more HP when Saul can actually move around and reach people and she can't.
He has 1.2 more Atk Spd than Cecilia.
24.5 Real Hit. Meant later on if he gains Spd. Even with the bad growth, his Spd is growing faster than the Wyvern's Spd.
Only for that one combat phase. When Garret is just using Iron/Steel/Hand, he's being cheaper. He can actually alternate between cheap and decent and expensive and h4x, while Cecilia is always somewhat pricy and always shitty. Me too. Gonzales is beast. So give them both one. They are supporting, afterall.
Cecilia gets to heal once in a while. Okay?
She needs three-four rounds of combat to kill it. That's massive suck right thar. And her chance of even hitting is beyond terrible. 7 SKL this late? Lol, and she's supposed to be a high ranking commander? She can barely hit Wyverns and Generals.
She's not even weakening things... Cecilia using Fire = throwing a match at the enemy. Cecilia using Thunder = her poking them with static electricity from walking on a carpet. Cecilia using Elfire = throwing two matches at the enemy. Cecilia using Aircalibur = her horse sneezing on the enemy. Wow, such great offense there. Doing 5 damage to physical units sure is impressive when they have over 30 HP! Garret either does massive damage or kills them. Way better.
He can double armoured units and some weighed down stuff. His Evd gets better after supports and he can get WTA vs lances, which are very common. His Def is fine. It starts out 3 higher than Cecilia's and he gets +1 from Gonzales and another +1 from Lilina or something. Cecilia's is only close because he hasn't gotten the +1 from B Gonzales yet in that chapter. Garret still has ~25 HP over her, which is massive. Her Mag isn't decent. It's terrible. It's just better than Clarine's, but we all know Clarine's strength isn't in her Mag stat; it's in her godly Evd, high Hit, and high Crit.
Or he could have had some luck with his Spd stat and is doubling them barely. Cecilia, even if she gets lucky, basically can't. She starts with 10. Garret starts with 11.2. Garret needs a good amount of luck. Cecilia needs enough luck to clean out a casino. Those supports are out of the question. Anima x Dark is disgustingly bad, Cecilia cramps Percival's style, and he has better partners. Even Douglas is better since he gives full Crit and doesn't die. B Roy? Wtf are you smoking? C Roy was already pushing it, but now Lance or Alan has to give him up? Garret can tag along with the team of Gonzales, Echidna, and Lalum and just assrape this chapter. He has WTA over all of the Wyverns and super massive Crit ftw.
B Roy doesn't exist, so -10 Evd even with A Percival. Percival takes Klein, Lalum, and Douglas all before Cecilia. Better bonuses for him and those units are better than Cecilia. Douglas can equip an axe and eat the Wyverns, and give Percival full Crit and Evd. Hot incest...omg...but I want yaoi...so hard to decide...
Decided. Yaoi ftw. Okay, so her offense is 0 if she's never fighting. That's a loss in over half of the game to Garret since there's far more fighting to be done than healing. Unless, you want to tell me that healing is done ~200 times in Chapter 21 or something... Only if they all hit. And he's still way better off than Cecilia.
She also loses 5 Crit, and when she needs a Crit to do just normal damage, that's terrible for her. Garret is more prone to recieve enemy attacks? Yeah. That makes him more prone to gaining EXP and killing things to help Combat, too.
In Sacae, both of our units are trashy beyond words. In Ilia, Garret is wtfrape vs all of those pegs and falcos and doesn't get doubled or hit as much, while Cecilia is still just as much suck. So Garret clearly wins.
So, again, Cecilia's offense is 0. Awesome. And how is Cecilia never being attacked when it's wide open space with enemies that have wtfrange? I'm quite certain reavers double the WTA, which is why Garret doesn't care about being doubled.
Garret is killing much worse than anyone else. In fact, he's not even worse than a lot of peoples. He has axes, massive Atk, and massive Crit. And Garret can bait them in and just dodge and slay them. Or attack them and OHKO with his massive Crit. Still better than Cecilia, who doesn't even kill them with Aircalibur most of the time.
Fire sucks massively. She does less damage and loses 5 Crit. Cecilia's Atk and Crit with Fire are so terrible that she does nothing. I've shown that she sucks massively even with the better weapons. Staves also cost moneyz.
Who cares? Garret can still use them often enough to rape things, and he can actually use them unlike Cecilia and get massive advantages over the enemies. You can buy them all besides the Brave Axe, anyways.
Lol, Li1337a, Yode1337, and Niime the Beast, indeed. Even if you don't want more on your team, they are better than Cecilia at healing and two of the three rape her in offense. You can buy promotional items with the Silver Card, so I don't care much about promoting by buying other promotional items. I don't really care much if he's outclassed by other characters. Garret sucks. Cecilia also sucks. The point is that Garret is better than Cecilia at both living and fighting. The only thing Cecilia wins is healing. Okay, Cecilia can't even fight or survive.
- ![]() -Cecilia's affinity actually sucks for Percival since her bonuses are inferior. Percival doesn't need 1 Atk. He needs Hit and he needs Crit to one-round the tanky shit, and Douglas gives him more Crit and actually can live, Lalum gives him full Crit, and Klein gives him more Hit which he does indeed need if he wants to use axes and lances, the better weapons. Garret's affinity gives him Crit and Hit, which he also needs. Garret with even more Crit? H4x. -Wtf? No. Cecilia has 30 HP, 11 MAG, 7 SKL, 10 SPD, 10 LUK, 7 DEF, and 13 RES when she joins in Chapter 14. Garret joins with more in everything but RES only a chapter and a gaiden afterwards. Wtf are you talking about? Cecilia is way worse than everyone when she joins, while Garret's HM boosts at least give him massive HP and STR, and he comes with massive Crit. -Cecilia sucks balls in both routes, wtf. She can't kill the pegs even with Aircalibur most of the time due to not even doubling and her Atk being that terrible. Enemies in Sacae have so much range that she can't avoid them. She dies way faster than Garret in both routes, but Garret at least rapes in Ilia. Chapter 21? Decent? Maybe if she doubled. But she doesn't. Garret has axes and omgwtfCrit. He has ~80 Crit with a Killer Axe and supports. 30 + 30 + 15 + ~10 from SKL = 85 wtf. And that's with only three supports, lulz. Give him more and his Crit gets even higher. He can get 95 Crit with full supports. With his Atk, nothing will survive. -Okay? She can run away... -She heals, but she also has tons of replacements: Clarine, Saul, Ellen, Niime, Yodel, Saul, Ray, Lugh, Sophia, and Lilina can all use staves. -Garret has access to axes that give him wtfoffense like the Hammer, Halberd, Brave Axe, Killer Axe, etc. -Garret actually can kill and survive. When your objective is to kill the enemies and not die yourself, that's pretty good to do. Cecilia sucks at both. She can heal people and move around, but she's a massive inconvienence due to her fraility and inability to fight. Garret >>> her. Garret is also the first true in FE, while Clarine is totally :feez:.
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| +Ema Skye | Aug 2 2007, 10:47 PM Post #8 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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time to vote nowz |
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vs 




in FE, while Clarine is totally :feez:.
2:26 PM Nov 8






