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| Gay Marriage | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 20 2007, 10:21 AM (1,610 Views) | |
| Barst | Aug 20 2007, 10:21 AM Post #1 |
Like I said before... I am perfect.
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Seeing how there hasn't been any topics on this in several months, and it is one of the most interesting debate topics... My Views: I support gay marriage. The definition of marriage doesn't fit, but definitions change, and as this one is discriminating, it has to. Having read several of these debates, I can tell that Sentinal will bring up the point that it's not discriminating as gays can marry people of the opposite gender. I'll counter that now for the hell of it: The fact that they aren't attracted to that gender means that the marriage won't mean as much. If the definition forces some people to do things in ways that make them worse off to get the same benefits, it's still discriminating. |
| Formerly Othin | |
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| +Reaver | Aug 20 2007, 10:31 AM Post #2 |
Troll
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Gay marriage is an issue of civil rights, I cannot seem to put this any other way. While many poular issues of debate are very controversial and have no straight answer (Death Penalty, Abortion), Gay Marriage is very open and shut because it's clearly not an issue of "Is this acceptable or not", it's a matter of civil rights and allowing two people, regardless of gender, wed. Sentenal's logic, "gays aren't discriminated they can marry women", is flawed to me because it assumes homosexuality is a choice. If you ask any homosexual man or woman if they chose to be gay/lesbian, you're going to get a resounding "no". It's biological, you cannot change what is biological. |
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| Sentenal | Aug 20 2007, 08:22 PM Post #3 |
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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I may or may not post more on this later tonight, but I don't think it has been proven that people are naturally gay. There has been no "Gay gene" or anything discovered. Maybe I'm not keeping up with things. |
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| Shinobi | Aug 20 2007, 09:55 PM Post #4 |
絶望した！！！
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homosexuality is a phase that many people go through in early teen-later teens. but it becomes a problem when they DON'T GROW OUT OF IT. it is common knowledge that some people (despite gender) mature at different speeds. i have known personally an 18 year old that still acts and reacts like a 7th grader. he is not mentally retarded and neither are homosexuals. but are still premature. i believe that homosexuality is wrong. not because i am a christian. it is because it is simple principles of human attatomy and biology. it is a male's seed that is used to impregnate a female's egg and this creates new life. this simple act cannot be done with 2 of the same sex to create a new human baby. and by allowing this to go unchallenged is ultimately lowering the human population and maybe even eventually endangering the spieces all-together. my opinion goes for not giving them rights. i'm not dennying them any other right than any other NORMAL person. they think themselves a "special case" and think that they should therfore get "Special privaleges"...and it sounds like an excuss to screw the gov out of more money. (which it deserves sometimes) i do not critisize homosexuals. and i am a very accepting person. i can get along well with them. i have before. but there is no-way i can agree to let them have what they want with so much against them. |
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| +Reaver | Aug 20 2007, 09:55 PM Post #5 |
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Troll
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Sexuality might be controled by alleles. Skin color is controlled by multiple genes, perhaps sexuality is also controlled by alleles because many different sexual likes/dislikes exist. It can't really be controlled if you find S&M, for example, attractive, just like it can't be controlled if you find the members of the same sex attractive. |
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| Space Flower | Aug 20 2007, 10:02 PM Post #6 |
WATER RESISTANCE IS HUGE
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It's been proven that genes have an effect on sexuality, even if there's no specific gene for being gay, bi, etc. |
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| Barst | Aug 20 2007, 10:04 PM Post #7 |
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Like I said before... I am perfect.
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I notice that you conveniently haven't said anything to show WHY that's true, just how justified your views are assuming that to be true.
The population is already too big, and still growing. |
| Formerly Othin | |
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| Soja | Aug 20 2007, 10:09 PM Post #8 |
Gentle Water, Crashing Waves
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Abandon the overpopulation card now. The only areas that are overpopulated are popular urban areas in which everyone wants to live in. If crowding is too big a problem for you, move into the countryside. 97% of New York, for example. |
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| +Reaver | Aug 20 2007, 10:13 PM Post #9 |
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Troll
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A phase? It's not a choice to be gay/straight, why would anyone want to be in a group that is often targeted by the narrow minded and generally scroned by the public? Homosexuality isn't a matter of maturity. Luke is gay and he types with better grammar than you do, who is more mature? I'll put a good friend's sentiments in code tags to counter this point:
You're calling gays abnormal. If they are "abnormal" and should have "normal" rights, then why can't they get married like "normal" people can? It's not a bid at "special privledges", it's the desire for the same treatment as other couples as well as an open acceptance of something that, in fact, is 100% natural. They're not trying to get money from the government, they're trying to get equal treatment. What's against them? If you're referring to their inability to reproduce then I trust you're against condoms. Otherwise gays have no negatives towards other people. As for Hito's post: It's partially genetic in the sense that hormones control it rather than a gene. It HAS, however, been proven that gay men/straight women have differences that reflect the opposite sex from the amount of hormones at certain stages (high testosterone before birth and during puberty for straight men, low estrogen before birth and high estrogen during puberty etc.) |
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| Shinobi | Aug 20 2007, 10:16 PM Post #10 |
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絶望した！！！
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many homosexuals argue that they have not chosen their condition, but that they were born that way, making homosexual behavior natural for them. But because something was not chosen does not mean it was inborn. some desires are acquired or strengthened by habituation and conditioning instead of by conscious choice. ... for example, no one chooses to be an alcoholic, but one can become habituated to alcohol. Just as one can acquire alcoholic desires (by repeatedly becoming intoxicated) without consciously choosing them, so one may acquire homosexual desires (by engaging in homosexual fantasies or behavior) without consciously choosing them. ...and population was not my main point....just an add on. and laugh about it now...but it still remains a possibility...in the far future
typing ability has nothing to do with maturity |
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| Sentenal | Aug 20 2007, 10:17 PM Post #11 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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Mights and perhaps? You are theorizing, just how people who think it is a choice theorize. So how can you say concretely that it isn't a choice (like what you are)? |
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| +Reaver | Aug 20 2007, 10:21 PM Post #12 |
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Troll
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Because I'm fairly certain that people aren't going to want to be affiliated with a group that would mean social ostracizion. That and since it's been proven to be partially controlled by hormones... (Source) You're right, we foster homosexuality in this country to uncomfortable levels. [/sarcasm]. You're making the bold assumption that homosexuality is a behavior and nothing more, but since hormones are proven to help determine sexuality it becomes something natural to act on the body's messages (I.E., I'm hungry). People become dependant on alcohol by choice of consuming alcohol. People don't become gay as a result of having gay sex, it's the other way around. How you show yourself to others through the quality of your grammar does. |
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| Sentenal | Aug 20 2007, 10:35 PM Post #13 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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People willing do that all the time, although it might not be homosexuality. There are plenty of groups that are socially ostracized, but people don't say they are naturally that way. For example, take Goth kids, or nerds. Both groups are ostracized in one way or another, but were destined to be Gothic or Nerdy at birth? Plus, if it is proven that homosexuality is a hormonal imbalance or something, shouldn't we treat homosexuality as a mental disease or something? For example, retarded people are born retarded, so they get treatment or what not. If homosexuality is hormonal, its the same type thing, right? heh, I can't get fired up about these debates anymore, not after debating them to death so many times in the past. |
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| Yzarc | Aug 20 2007, 10:38 PM Post #14 |
Coxian
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I'm gonna go ahead and disregard this blatantly hateful remark.
Right. So homosexuals lack sexual maturity. Where are you getting this from?
Far as I can tell, Iyasu's the one who brought up the population card. Eniomus' point was entirely valid as a counterpoint. Fact of the matter is, even the areas that AREN'T overpopulated don't NEED people. So, if we're to abandon the idea that the world needs less people, then you guys aren't allowed to be saying humanity is in danger because a few sexually active people aren't having babies.
If gay people are screwing the government out of money by wanting to get married to each other then straight people are doing the same thing. They've just been doing it for a lot longer. Aside from that point, I'm gonna disregard the rest of that quote. Out of context, this quote is nice. But considering what preceded it, it seems contradictory. |
  
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| +Reaver | Aug 20 2007, 10:47 PM Post #15 |
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Troll
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We don't prejudice against goths and nerds legally, however. True they get bullied for having different tastes, but they can control it. I doubt you selected your testosterone levels individually before you left the womb, I certainly doubt that can be controlled. It's not a hormonal imbalance, it's merely how much/little hormones exist. I doubt you could just inject testosterone and change the normal mentality of someone. Retarded people don't get treatment, they need care because they have impared mental ability and can't care for themselves, the effects of retardation get them treatment whereas people aren't treated for other genetic disorders such as Kleinfelter's Syndrome. It's also odd to consider homosexuality a "disorder", since it seems to have no detrimental effects on a person... |
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11:47 AM Nov 28
