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| Eltoshen vs Jeigan | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 5 2007, 11:38 PM (517 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | Sep 5 2007, 11:38 PM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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let's see what Elto's made of HIT HIM WITH THE MISTOLTIN |
 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| 180degrees | Sep 6 2007, 12:28 AM Post #2 |
youngbaesol<3
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I think I'll simplify this quite a bit to get points across in a non-boring way. We'll start with the chapter they join in as they both come along in chapter 2. To begin with, Lachesis joins you from the start at level two; although still an NPC. Fury joins at level 6 but starts off as an enemy. When you think of it that way, Lachesis is way easier to recruit. Why? First off, she's en-route to the main enemy castle. Plus the fact that the enemies are literally trying to fuck her up Let's take Fury. Enemy unit. Comes down to attack your main base. Flies through the mountains. You have to send Levin all the way around to the left through the forest, back down through the road, to the far right past Nodion, where you get Lachesis, through the winding path near the forested grove(a little bit above your base). How far was that? Wasted at least 12-15 turns. Levin then gets left there until the end. Unless you want to wait for him to climb all the way around through the road path or climb through the forested grove that limits his move space. Incidentally, you might accidentally kill off Fury. >_> Next, special items. Mmm. I'll love THIS part. Chapter 2. Dew gives Lachesis a Thief Sword. She can use it to pilfer money from enemies and make funds for repairing her Live Staff. End of Chapter 2. She receives the Knight Ring if she and all three of her knights is alive. Chapter 3. Lachesis is needed to save you from one of your hardest battles. Eltosian. Yum. She gets an Earth Sword from talking to him too! Let's take Fury. No special convos that give anything but Love. :/ Training! This will be short and sweet. Both of them have a really hard time getting past stage 3 or 4 of the arena. So quick leveling off of arenas is out of the question. Let's take on their roles during the chapter! Fury relies on physical attacks to level. Her strength is way-below par. She'll take at least two turns to finish off a simple mage; yet alone a bandit/pirate. Lachesis, however, has another oppurtunity for experience. Healing. Healing minor wounds won't slow you down much at all. 15 experience per heal. Fury gains about 10 experience per attack and around 30-40(?-maybe less) per kill. Fury takes two turns to kill enemies. I'm not taking babying into account(aka, a stronger character hits some damage off the enemy and then Fury finishes him off) so it'll take her 2-3 turns or more depending on the enemy to kill somebody off. That'll gain her around 50 experience in 3 turns. Note that if Fury has to search for a good enemy to kill, she'll be unable to gain any experience at all for many turns. On the other hand, Lachesis will gain 45 exp in 3 turns. What if none of your allies are hurt? Since your other characters are constantly leveling, they often receive one point in HP that just sits there until healed. I'll wait for your replies and more.(stupid parents telling me to sleep) |
| FORMERLY AND ALWAYS WILL BE MEMBER#180. | |
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| Big Boss | Sep 7 2007, 11:02 PM Post #3 |
 
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ftw
Indeed, it takes Levin a while to get there, but, as an intersting fact, a portion of your army is busy visiting the villages of the central area of the map, so Levin isn't the only one who is missing combat. Oh, and Levin doesn't get left there until the end. The last 2 enemy castles are at the northeast area of the map. Levin and Fury will rejoin the army in order to get to the 2 last castles.
lol, wtf? Is ths even a point? We are assuming perfect playthroughs
Fury would make better use of that sword, since she can fly and has a much wider range, she can potentially use it more often and obtain moar moneyz. Then, Thief sword has lol, 3 might, and Lachesis doesn't get pursuit until promotion. Giving Lachesis the Thief Sword will make her offense wtfphail, while Fury can deal better damage with it since she can double. Fury is definitely a better option for the thief sword. Lachesis getting it doesn't mean she's entitled to using it.
And with this, we have an intersting point. Lachesis' knights follow her. If Lachesis gets too close to combat, the knights will blindly charge and get killed. Definitely not good since the Knight ring is so h4x. Thanks to this, Lachesis is quite limited during chapter 2.
 Fury has a base Str of 11. Lachesis has 6. Fury also has lances and more importantly, pursuit. If Fury's offense is below par, Lachesis' is incredibly bad. Also, Fury has a more versatile class which allows her to ramain closer to combat. Additionally, by the end of chapter 3, Fury gets the Hero Spear, since Finn is leaving. After promotion, Fury gets Continue and thanks to her very high Spd she has decent chances of activating it.
Lachesis is also not the best at healing. You already have Edain and Ethlin who are better choices, and you have Sylvia to refresh them if needed. Also, it is not always the case that Fury has to be the only one who is fighting an enemy. There are many units that aren't killing in one round. People like Alec, Noishe, Arden, Azel, Cuan, Dew, Ethlin, etc. Fire Emblem is about teamwork and Fury works better than Lachesis at that because of her class and her overall better stats. Speaking of stats, let's assume Lachesis got to level 6 when Fury joins... Lachesis: 28.4 HP, 8 Str, 8.2 Mag, 9.4 Skl, 13.8 Spd, 7.8 Def, 9.4 Res, 6.6 Lck Fury: 32 HP, 11 Str, 1 Mag, 12 Skl, 18 Spd, 9 Def, 9 Res, 7 Lck Fury is looking more solid, except for Mag, which she doesn't even need now and a fractional Res lead.
Lachesis isn't the best option for healing before promotion, since other units do it better. After promotion, Fury gets better for healing, thanks to a bit more magic and ignoring terrain so she can reach units faster. Fury wins offense all the time, has a more versatile class and becomes an excellent healer after promotion. She is clearly the better unit. |
 ^^by comatose from NationalSigLeague^^ Kratos/Jeigan | |
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| 180degrees | Sep 8 2007, 02:51 AM Post #4 |
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youngbaesol<3
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Portion? I believe you can just send one character to the side after defeating the base to the north-west. You really don't need to worry much about that character either. And since you mentioned that Lachesis gets her knights killed, why not send Lachesis to get the money?
...by traveling through where? Around the sides which takes a long time? Or through the woods which is surrounded by ballistae?
Yeah, recruiting a character is part of the playthrough. What do you expect? We're only debating the last chapter?
The Thief Sword, as you described, isn't much at all. You're right. However, that doesn't mean anything really. Lachesis doesn't depend on killing the enemy. Fury does. Lachesis is doing it for the money to repair her staff(in worst case senerios; probably never going to happen). And if she doesn't need it, she can sell it. Fury will have to buy it. There are many other items out there that can be used. Thus, Fury buying it will be a waste of money. Not to mention the fact that she'll be really weak. Therefore, Lachesis uses the Thief Sword "better".
LOL, um, what? The only time that the knights are really able to be killed is at the beginning when Elliot is attacking Nodion. After that, you should be charging straight forward if you want to save all the villages. In the mean time, Lachesis gets all that free experience while healing her injured, but not on death row, knights.
Ever heard of growths? Lachesis almost always caps her strength. Lachesis' Strength growth is 50%. Fury's is 20%. Yeah...great point there. I applaud you for looking over something that changes everything.
By that time, Lachesis should be class-changed if you heal all minor wounds. Lachesis will be able to use all weapons except Dark. Fury is stuck with a Sword, Lance, and a Staff. Lachesis with a Silver Axe(not to mention, you can rape Lex's Hero Axe and give it to her if you're not gonna have Lex be a father) can one-round enemies. All the time. The only exception is bosses. Fury... She has a Hero Spear. And who might be able to benefit from that better? Sigurd, Noish, Lachesis.
Um, okay. Good for her. Nice job wasting money on hits that only do 7 damage per stab.
Better choice my ass. Ethlin leaves after chapter 3 and Adean can barely keep up with your army. Lachesis has high movement, not to mention she can heal and then move again(after promo).
Fury does not have better stats than Lachesis. What.the.fuck.
She does not have a "bit more magic" than Lachesis so: What.the.fuck.
Offense my ass. Master Knight is basically one of the best classes in the game. If Fury becomes a better healer, Lachesis becomes the BEST healer. |
| FORMERLY AND ALWAYS WILL BE MEMBER#180. | |
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| Big Boss | Sep 8 2007, 05:31 PM Post #5 |
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Ok. If Lachesis goes there, this pretty much confirms she gets almost no experience in this chapter.
"takes a long time?"? What are you taking about? The rest of your army is still moving back from the northwest part of the map. It takes about the same time to move back your army and for Levin to reach them using the main road.
Perfect playthroughs mean S rank so every unit is recruited. And you want to pair Fury anyway.
Earlier in your post you said you would send Lachesis to visit the villages in chapter 2. That takes care of the money needed for staff repairing, and she can get more money from the arena/Dew/her lover if needed later on. Fury buying it is a waste of money? Did you forgot that the Thief sword gives you moneyz every time you attack? Fury gets more money thanks to the Thief sword. It's like an investment.
The knights are incredibly dumb. If you send Lachesis to the frontline, where she heals the wounded, they will do something stupid like getting in range of various enemies or attacking the boss. Lachesis has to stay back so her knights do the same.
I specifically said I was talking about bases. And besides, Lachesis will only catch up in Strenght by level 16, and Fury still has the advantage of having pursuit until Lachesis promotes, so Fury is still winning offense. And Fury should have a level lead since you are sending Lachesis to save villages and not fight.
Level 21 Lachesis with silver axe has 2.8 speed. Way to ruin her offense. And no, she isn't taking hero axe. Lex needs it so his offense is good, and there is not a reason you don't want Lex to level up.
Sigurd has his silver sword and later on he gets Tyrfing. You don't want him to waste money in an unecessary weapon. He it for repairing the Tyrfing. Noishe is only able to attack twice with Hero spear. Fury can attack 4 times. Fury is the better user Lachesis has so much weapon variety she doesn't need it.
huh? where did the 7 come from? Elaborate, plz.
Ethlin is better during the time she's there thanks to being a mobile healer. Edain can use stuff like Libro and other cool staves. And she starts with relieve, whis is better than Lachesis' live staff. Theb you'll get Claude, who is only good for healing, Levin promotes and gets staves. Same with Fury, but she also ignores terrain so she can reach wounded units more easily than Lachesis.
Good job ignoring the stat comparison in my first post.
http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=fury&game=4 http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=lachesis&game=4 Fury, level 21. 9.5 Magic Lachesis, level 21. 8.9 Magic 9.5>8.9
Having the best class =/= having better offense. Fury gets continue and Hero spear. Before promotion, it wasn't even close. Fury becomes a better healer. thanks to a bit more magic and ignoring terrain so she can reach units faster. |
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^^by comatose from NationalSigLeague^^ Kratos/Jeigan | |
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| 180degrees | Sep 8 2007, 10:14 PM Post #6 |
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youngbaesol<3
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Same for Fury. You're not gonna send her to fight those knights anyways. And if she's only used to kill off little enemies, that's basically babying. But, as I said, you don't have to send Lachesis up there. What main road are you talking about? He still has all that forest to move through and the walk to the base, making him lose valuable experience.
Yes, and so what I mentioned before still applies. She's pretty much useless by the time you get her. Name one mob that she could help out in without being babied. Pair Fury? We aren't talking about second gen. That's why I haven't mentioned the fact that Lachesis' kids get Holy Blood no matter what, while Fury's kids don't.
So you're gonna be babying her by having her attack enemies with the Thief Sword for money? Waste of time and exp. She should be using other weapons to actually KILL an enemy and earn experience. So she doesn't use the Thief Sword, that Lachesis receives in the first place, "Better".
The knights move themselves. If an enemy is somewhere on the map, they will go and attack those enemies. They only surround Lachesis when there are no attackable enemies on the map. This is true for most cases, as the game is pretty undecided when it comes to these things.
Lachesis isn't fighting for experience, so that's pointless. Lachesis' experience comes from healing, as I've mentioned many times. I never said Lachesis has to be saving villages. I just said that she could go save the villages and still be usable in the later chapters. Unlike Fury, who is basically useless if she doesn't keep up with the main army's levels. Lachesis also receives the Knight Ring, which she can choose to keep so she moves much faster. If she wants more experience, she can sell it and buy the Elite Ring for faster exp.
She can OHKO as well. Give her any other weapon and she'll be one-rounding. And in any case, Lex will be level 30 by the time Lachesis promotes so he can just send his Hero Axe over. It'd be a waste of to leave it on him as he can't pass it on anyways. You'll need Lex for good ranks at the first few chapters. Lachesis basically takes over his job and cleans things up in the last chapters.
He gets the Tyrfing the last chapter. Yeah, way to go!
Fury needs 4 hits to finish an enemy, Noish doesn't. Fury averages 14.2 strength, Noish 20.2. He leads by a whole 6 points. That's pretty big difference there.
Um...I think that's against your argument. Anyways, if you leave it on Finn, he'll have a proper weapon to deal with enemies in the second gen where he's protecting Nanna and Finn.
It's an exaggeration. I basically meant that Fury isn't pulling any hard punches.
Guess, what. Lachesis gets an A in staves once she promotes. Which means she can use all the staves Edain can. Edain has 5 movement, Lachesis has 9, up to 11 with Knights Ring. Once Ethlin leaves, Lachesis becomes your primary mounted healer. Fury is basically unneeded(stuck with a C level in staves=sad). If Lachesis can't reach far enough, she has her Libro Staff to heal with. She can also use the Warp Staff, Rescue Staff, Recover Staff, Reserve Staff, etc. So basically, Fury is average in terms of Offense and Healing. Lachesis is above par in both. She won't be easily shot down either, thanks to her Prayer Sword(which is especially useful in her previous class). Oh, and her Charisma which gives her +10 avoid.
Fury has a total of 146.5 points at Level 21. Lachesis has 148.8. Lachesis leads my 2.3 points. By level 30, Fury has 163.3 while Lachesis has 167.2. Lachesis now leads by 3.9. Where's your point? If you want to so badly, let's compare their stats at level 21. Fury on the left, Lachesis is on the right. HP: 39.5/37.4 - not much of a lead for Fury. Really. :/ Strength: 14.2/22.5 - yeah, I'm sure that Fury is a better offensive unit.[/sarcasm] >_> Magic: 9.5/8.5 - Fury is basically outclassed anyways. She can only use Staves that heal one person, while Lachesis can heal from afar and also heal a whole range of people, not to mention cast spells on them. Skill: 18.0/17.9 - Not much difference here so I'll skip this. Speed: 25.5/20.6 - Fury's speed lead doesn't help her much at all if she can barely scratch the enemy. Not to mention that Lachesis is already fast enough to be doubling her enemies as well. Defense: 14.5/17.8 - That's just sad. Fury is a better unit than Lachesis? Not no more, bish. Resistance: 15.5/10.9 - Alright so Fury leads. That's good for her. Lachesis can OHKO most magic units anyways so yeah. She doesn't really need Resistance in the first place. >_> Luck: 10.0/12.6 - Fury loses again. Basically, the only time Lachesis will be fighting is after her promotion so this is the only time I'll be comparing the two. Again, if it hasn't been brought up enough, Lachesis depends on healing for levels 1-20. Fury depends on weak hits...that takes her a lot more experience to level...that involves babying. Note: I didn't include the special convo with Beowulf that actually increases her stats.
Lachesis doesn't battle before promotion. Hero Lance can also be used by Lachesis; more effectively, may I add, as she does more damage. Quite a lot more damage. 8.3 more base damage. Get the point?
Lachesis doesn't need to avoid terrain. She has her l33t h4x Reserve and Libro staves. Fury becomes a better healer how? She couldn't heal at all during her times as a Peg. Knight. Lachesis has always been the better healer. Explain your logic. I've forgotten to mention that Fury is weak against bows. Instant critical if hit. And the fact that there are many ballistaes in the game doesn't help. Lachesis is only weak against knight killers, but that's only during the second class. The only knight killer that appears before that is when she's still un-promoted. Lachesis is basically your badass girl who can heal and attack. ps. You seem to have totally dodged the fact that Lachesis receives the Earth Sword from her brother. Scared? I dare you to challenge me. Just some things to mention before quitting. If you don't talk to Eltosian, you have to kill him. He'll own your whole army. |
| FORMERLY AND ALWAYS WILL BE MEMBER#180. | |
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| Big Boss | Sep 9 2007, 01:43 PM Post #7 |
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Why not? She should go along with the rest of your team to fight those knights and stuff.
I'm refering to once he got to the main base and recruited Fury. Levin ises the arena to get some levels while your main team finishes crushing the northwest castle, and they are returning back. Levin moves as if he wants to go to Nodion, then catch up with your army where the path splits in two, where one road goes to the northeast.
She isn't really being babied. As I mentioned before, lots of units aren't killing in one round. Having 1 more combat unit, especially if she's a flier is always good. While the second generation doesn't directly affect our debaet, my point is that there is no reason for killing Fury.
The Thief sword is very useful for attacking stuff like the weak bandits who try to destroy villages and carry 5000G, and Fury is much better than Lachesis at this because by flying she can reach the enemy faster. Waste of exp? If she attacks, she gets exp, so I don't know what you are talking about. Then, with only 1 attack of thief sword, she steals all the gold from the enemy, and during the next turn she can switch to a more powerful weapon and kill. Lachesis' offense before promotion sucks regardless of weapon because her lack of pursuit.
yeah, exactly. If you move Lachesis where there are enemies, the knights will do something stupid. And since Lachesis needs to be near the frontlines to heal...
Okay, if Lachesis is only getting experience from healing, her situation is even worse, since experience gotten from combat>>experience gotten from healing and since there are better healers around, Lachesis isn't even healing that much. Fury can fight reliably because she doubles and other units don't kill in one round. Btw, Lachesis is not the only one who can get the Elite ring. Since Fury gets the thief sword, she gan get money to buy it.
Nah, enemies in FE4 have good HP, she she doesn't one round, even with silver axe. Well, maybe she one rounds some mages, but Fury also kills them in one round so it doesn't matter. Not to mention Lachesis kills her avoid if she equips that. Lex may be level 30, so what? that doesn't mean he should be ditched. He is still an excellent unit. Training him so you bench him after=lol
Your point? He needs as much money as possible to repair it, he shouldn't waste it buying an uneeded weapon. Besides, he can't even pass it down.
Noishe will only attack twice with Hero spear, thanks to no pursuit, so Fury is potentially dealing more damage. And money is not an issue because of the thief sword and arena. Like before, Noishe may not even pass it down.
Finn will be promoted, so he'll be fine, even with an iron lance. It's better in fact, bacause he can act like a Jeigan ang give Leaf and Nanna some easy kills.
Baseless claim, indeed. Especially considering how Fury will start to land criticals once her weapons have 50 kills, and she lands multiple hits if she has the hero spear and additionally, she has a good chance of activating continue after promotion.
Guess what? With a C, Fury can use relieve, which is all she will ever need. I fail to see how a C in staves is sad, especially since the better staves will be in hands of Edain, since she fails at combat and healing is pretty puch her only source of experience. Btw, Charisma doesn't benefit Lachesis.
Lol, total stats. Total stats don't matter. What matters is how they are distributed, so let's see...
Defense and HP are as important. An enemy needs like 54 Atk OHKO both. And Fury has more RES, and about 5 more speed, which translates to 10 avoid. Lachesis only has about 2 luck to counter that. Fury is easily better defensively.
5 Speed and continue>>>6 attack. Especially since at this point you should start landing criticals. 5 Speed is particularly significant since weapon weight is directly substracted from speed, giving Fury a nice advantage as far as doubling goes. And since you like to give Lachesis Silver axes, that completely kills her speed.
I c wut u did thar. You keep ignoring my first comparison because Fury wins there. And since Lachesis depends on healing so much, that means Fury is getting a nice level lead, making her even better. Also, you seem to think that not killing in one round=needing babying. Well, this is quite false since lots of units aren't killing in 1 round.
Also, Lachesis can't pass it down. And since Lachesis is leveling much slower because healing only gives her 12 exp, IIRC, Fury is promoting sooner. Fury will be using the hero spear before Lachesis even promotes.
Lachesis' range with Libro and Reserve is quite poor, compared to the likes of Edain and Claude, she shouldn't be using them. I never said Fury was better healer before promotion. I said once she promotes she wins because of reaching units easily and healing for a bit more.
Ballistaes also have bad hit, so Fury can dodge those easily. And against the unusuall bowmen, she uses her hit and run to attack and get out of their range.
yeah, she gets the Earth sword, but Lachesis isn't attacking in the first place, right?  Overall, Fury is better defensively, has great offense and healing abilities after promotion. She's also your only flyer during the first generation, which gives her a more unique role. |
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^^by comatose from NationalSigLeague^^ Kratos/Jeigan | |
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| +Ema Skye | Sep 9 2007, 01:47 PM Post #8 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Voat. |
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MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH
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12:45 AM Nov 26
