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| Sentenal vs Sety | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 18 2007, 10:09 PM (363 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | Sep 18 2007, 10:09 PM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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wooooooo |
 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Sentenal | Sep 24 2007, 11:43 PM Post #2 |
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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Holyn vs Ethlin. Well, time to compare apples and oranges. So, how are they different? In nearly every possible way. Ethlin is a mounted healer, who leaves during chapter 3. Holyn is a footie swordfighter who joins chapter 2. During the chapters Ethlin is there, all she does is heal. Should you promote her before she leaves, she would still pretty much only heal, since she is terrible at combat (no pursuit ftl). Holyn... Well, he always fights. And he is very good at it. Pursuit, high SPD, good STR, and moonlight hit. Holyn is one of your very best fighters. Give him a Steel Blade, and watch him tear things apart. K, well lets do some comparizing. Ethlin either has zero offense, or terrible offense. Holyn always has excellent offense. Holyn joins chapter 2, and stays till the end of the game. He gets a good 4 chapter worth of use. Ethlin joins in the prologue, and leaves at the end of chaper 3. If you count the prologue as a whole chapter, thats a bit less than 4 chapters for Ethlin too. The Prologue is so small and easy, compared to some of the later chapters (like chapter 4, where Ethlin isn't present for), I wouldn't even count that as a full chapter. And then, Ethlin heals, while Holyn doesn't. So offense, Holyn>>>>>>>, and utility wise, Ethlin>>>>>>>. How about durability wise...? Holyn has 40 HP, and 11 DEF at base level. Ethlin at level 20 has 39.4 HP and 13.8 DEF. Note, that Ethlin just got a 6 DEF bonus from promoting, so Ethlin is sucking in defense lots before that. And, a final point against Ethlin. She is of Lenster. Enemy of Thracia. You see, her husband ticked of Trabant, and being the awesome Wyvern guy he is, Trabant raped the shit out of Lenster. So Ethlin gets killed, for being an enemy of Justice. Does Holyn get killed by Trabant the Awesome? No, he doesn't. Bettur offense, bettur defense, not getting killed by Trabant>>>>>Healing, leaving early, and getting killed by Trabant. |
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| AdamNW | Sep 26 2007, 10:21 PM Post #3 |
Needs moar Sety
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Random Edit: My name's Sety, stupid  Ethlin leaves early is a plus for Holyn? They are around for almost the exact same amount of time.
You also forgot that Ethlin is a woman. A hot woman, I may add.
And attacking resistance + Critical + Massive avo doesn't make up for pursuit how...? Also, Ethlin's healing is essential. +Survival, +EXP. Two very hard ranks to 5 Star. Does Holyn help the survival? No. Does he help the EXP? Not at first. Recruiting him at all is fairly difficult due to his Luna.
Okay.
She has 0 offense when she has 99% WTA for the first 2 chapters, then gets a Light Brand for the next 2, as well as VERY high avoid? I wouldn't call that exactly terrible either. Mediocre, possibly. She still does a ton of damage with her Light Brand, and she can stay on the front line for a long time due to her high avoid, or at least for the first 2 chapters (where Holyn isn't present).
Of course, Avo doesn't mean shit in this game! Who knew?!
Chapter 2 is the biggest chapter, for one thing. Chapter 0 could be challenging without Ethlin. Holyn, sadly, isn't very good in chapter 4. A lot of WTD and re-movable Pegs with leadership bonus is not a good thing. Can he use the Wing Clipper? Uh, yeah, but that should be given to Lachesis or Dew to make up for their own awful offense.
You're telling me it's a bad thing that FE5 happened?
Uhh... The game not telling what the hell happened to him is > Knowing what happened to her? Logic plz Leaving early doesn't matter when they are usable equally. Moar Avo = Moar Raw Defense.  Utility >>>>>>>>>> Offense. Believe it. |
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| Sentenal | Sep 27 2007, 07:20 PM Post #4 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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ur name is butt face
That chapters Holyn are around for are more difficult that the freaking prologue. Chapter 4 and 5, the chapters where Ethlin abandons you for, are much more difficult than the pre-Holyn chapters, the Prologue and chapter 1. Not to mention longer, seeing as how short the prologue is.
First off, her avoid doesn't mean shit for her offense. And it doesn't make up for critical in the least. Criting doubles your attack power, when you crit. Pursuit makes you double attack as long as your AS is higher. Basically, if you land a crit, you get the same result as you would from hitting twice. And it is activated based on SKL, so Ethlin will only have about a 20% chance (give or take) after promotion to crit. While Holyn doubles just about everything in the game. Pursuit is TONS better than that. And attacking resistance...? Uhh, so? Resistance is lower than DEF most of the time, but did you even think that Holyn's STR and weapon power might be higher as well? Ethlin has 16~ STR, and 10~ mag on promotion. I don't care what you say, her offense is ALWAYS bad.
Milfs are your thing, eh?
Holyn does help survial. He destroys enemy units, so they can't attack again. Or, he prevents your healers from getting attacked. And Holyn does help your EXP. He gains it. Does Ethlin help your combat rank? rofl, I don't think so.
She doesn't double, and she has pitiful STR. 5 STR at base level, and a slim sword, for a grand total of 13 Atk. And no pursuit. rofl, Holyn has more base STR than she has attack! And come chapter 2, she can get the Light Sword. Just in time for Holyn, eh? Still nothing special. Holyn is running around with pursuit, a steel blade, and moonlight hit, massacring your enemies, while Ethlin has to use a magic sword, for a total about about 20~ attack, once? I'm not wasting my time having her fight.
You think you have a significant avoid advantage? When Holyn comes, he has 29 avoid with a Steel Sword, but he gets two more levels by raping the arena (something that Ethlin can't do). So, level 14 Holyn has 30.6 avoid. Ethlin would be like, level 14 </number out of ass>. With her Slim sword, thats 40.4 avoid, or if she uses her Light Sword, 32.4 avoid. So, her avoid advantage is hardly anything, and Holyn is DEFINITELY more durable when HP and DEF is considered. Much more durable.
Good for chapter 2 being huge, because Holyn pwns there. Chapter 0 is easy as shit. WTD doesn't bother me much. Holyn still beats face in chapter 4, unless you forgot you can make use of the plentiful forests everywhere. Holyn has already promoted, so he is about level 22ish </number out of ass>. So he has 38~ Atk with a Steel Blade. Still enough AS to double. Pegs have about 10 DEF, so Holyn hits twice for 28~ damage. If Moonlight hit activates on either of those hits (about 27% chance each hit, so 54~% chance to activate once per round), he one rounds.
FE5 is mostly about Leaf going against Blume's Manster. Not about a war against Thracia. But yes, because Trabant was so pwnage to slay the villious Cuan and Ethlin, their daughter Altenna was able to be elevated to the level of greatness. If Ethlin had her way, Altenna wouldn't have been nearly as pwnage as she is.
Being an enemy of the Great Nation of Thracia is a crime in itself. We might not know what happend to Holyn, but at least he didn't piss of Trabant the Great and get pwned by him.
Being better defensively and offensively > Healing. Dattebayo. Ethlin is your only healer in the prologue. Then you get Edain. And then Lachesis. And then your mages and Fury eventually get staves. Not to mention you have churchs around the place to heal your units. |
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| AdamNW | Sep 28 2007, 09:53 PM Post #5 |
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Needs moar Sety
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no u
And you know why the prologue is so easy? ETHLIN.
You give too much credit to chapter 5. Chapter five is so fucking easy it isn't funny. The only hard part about it is keeping Byron alive.
Uh, yeah. Her ability to dodge so much allows her to front line easier.
Well yeah, she already has it. 
And Ethlin crit's a LOT after a chapter or two. Incidentally right when she gets the light brand.
Uh, did I say that it was? No. I said that her personal offense set makes up for the fact that she doesn't have Pursuit.
First off, go play the game. Light brand = 12 mt + magic based. She has 22 might against almost every enemy in the chapter she gets it. In most cases, that's half of the enemy's health.
Yes. My fetish started with your mom, actually.
If he is getting attacked on the enemy turn, then he is getting attacked by every other enemy in that squad. His survival largely depends on the amount of units. If it were the free knights, well, I hope he had a full use sword 
Do you even know how the combat rank works? Arena suicide ftl.
Oh boo hoo. 7-10 mt against starting enemies before critical isn't necessarily bad. Let her level up some with staves.
Don't complain about critical then claim Luna is good. At the most, Holyn's activation rate is only 5% better then Ethlin's crit rate. And if Holyn is already supposedly killing everything, is Luna necessary?
*42.4. Lern2loverbonus. Also, Ethlin is around Sigurd more often then Holyn is if that means anything.
Alot of stuff comes out of your ass, doesn't it? Yes yes. Lots of forest. Lots of lost movement. The pegs are still hitting though. Deveeta and Pamela are just that good of commanders.
Cool. He gets to steal another kill and survive another lance attack. How swell.
lolk. That still doesn't mean that Ethlin's death didn't contribute.
If she became a troubadour, she can still use the Gae Bolg, just not as an unpromoted unit. I'm sure Cuan would make her take up Duke Knight status, however. *shot because of Gen 2 shit*
k, for all we know he died sucking someone's dick because he didn't want them to kill him even though they did anyway. How pitiful.
Uh... Aideen is almost never in reach of your other units Same for Lachesis, but she would much rather fight Same for Claude. Tiltyu even getting promoted is a wonder. Levin... Uh, well, I suppose. But he probably isn't promoting until after chapter 3 (or very late in it) anyway. What I said for Levin applies to Fury as well. Churches take too long. The only safe way to heal on a church is to make sure they are out of enemy range, which hurts his ability to level up, and harms tactics potentially. Uh, okay. |
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| Sentenal | Sep 28 2007, 11:24 PM Post #6 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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Ethlin=Sigurd? Uhhh, no. That is comlete bullshit.
Chapter 5 has some of the most powerful bosses in generation 1, and is TONS harder than the prologue, and harder than chapter 1.
Dodging doesn't kill enemies. Therefore, Dodging doesn't help offense at all. That is kinda basic.
No she doesn't. :richie: 11 base SKL, with a 30% growth...? She isn't critting alot at all.
No... It doesn't. Crit at best is like a one time pursuit. And then she has bad Atk. Her personal offense is bad.
No shit, Sherlock. Maybe if you read my entire post, you would have seen I pointed out she has 20~ atk. Every round of attacking, Ethlin will hit once for 20 damage. 30.6 Atk. Holyn one rounds just about every Lance Knight, Axe Knight, Free Knight, Swordfighter, and mage in the chapter. With Moonlight hit (about 40% chance to activate once in a round), Holyn becomes one of the best people to take down the various Armors in chapter 2 as well, as when he activates Moonlight hit once, he one rounds all of them as well. This is good offense. Hitting once for 20 damage is not. Hell, another point I could bring up here is upkeep cost of the Light Sword. It has a cost of 12000 gold, twice of what Holyn's Steel Blade cost. Holyn rapes the arena, so doesn't have to worry about money. Ethlin? Well, she better not use it too often. Ethlin cannot fight in the arena. Her main source of funds are villages. And Ethlin going in to get money prevents other people from getting that. Not good, that selfish bitch... Add this onto the fact that she has to get money to repair her staves as well, and Ethlin is gonna be strapped for cash. My point? Ethlin needs to restrict use of her Light Sword, so she doesn't use it too much, and then not have the money to repair it.
Holyn needs 20 uses of his Steel Blade to massacre an entire army of Free Knights. Swords have 50 uses. But, you aren't going to have anyone solo an army. The simple fact that Holyn is there and killing anything he comes into combat with helps the survival of other units they could have potientally attacked. This, my friend, is a fact.
APPARENTLY you don't know how it works. Battle losses are getting killed. It seems that if a unit is killed, and even if you reset the game, it records 1 loss. Savestates aren't actually used the game, so "lol savestates" aren't considered. Combat is considered one of the hardest ranks to get. And since Holyn is probably never going to die, prevents others from dieing by killing the enemy, and Ethlin being much more fragile, Holyn is better than Ethlin by lots in the combat rank.
Wow, 11% chance to crit. That is amazing. Oh wait, not it isn't. She would be doing 7~ damage, per hit, against enemies who have about 35-40 HP. Do you see her offense is bad NOW? Its fucking terrible, beyond useless, why the hell are you making her attack bad, when she doesn't have the Light Sword.
Against Armors, it is. I already addressed this.
Even with lovers bonus, it is hardly anything against Holyn's HP and DEF. About 10 more avoid, to 5 DEF and 6.4 HP. Holyn is better defensively. An Iron Lance alone (not counting the enemy's SKL or anything) has 80 hit. And against Ethlin, they have WTA, so another 20. So, that is about 60 hit on Ethlin, if the enemy had 0 SKL (lance knights in chapter 2 have about 8 SKL). Iron Sword people have 80 accuracy on their weapon, and then about 8 SKL. So they have about 50 hit on Ethlin.
Not any worse than people like Sigurd or Beowulf, defensively.
I don't even know what the hell you are getting at. Steal another kill...? How do you steal kills? I proved Holyn isn't getting raped by the pegs. Holyn is taking like 9 damage per Peg. The forests negates the WTD he gets, so Holyn has like 47 avoid against them, 57 if Sigurd is near, and if Lachasis is around too, 67 avoid.
Ethlin's death didn't cause Blume to take over Manster. Leaf didn't fight Blume to avenge his mother. Ethlin's death contributed to FE5 just as much as every other death of a Generation 1 unit did.
Silly Sety, Lenster has no Dragons to let Altenna ride. She would have gotten the Gae Bolg regardless, its just Trabant being the pwnage person he is, letting his own adoptive daughter ride a dragon that can shoot eye lasers and fart lightning bolts.
He was along side Sigurd at the Battle of Barhara, and died along with just about everyone else, in combat. Other than Ethlin the bitch, who was pwned by Trabant the Great.
Bullshit that Edain doesn't get to heal. Take chapter 1, for example, and the huge forest there. Edain isn't getting left behind there. Chapter 2 has lots of roads, and its not like 100% of your army is mounted, so she isn't getting left far behind. Same can be said of future chatpers. Lachesis would much rather fight after promotion when she is a Master Knight, but before that, no pursuit=probably not a good idea to fight, so she heals. Everything else, same as Edain. She isn't really getting left behind. Unless you are retarded. Same with Claude. It would probably be a good idea to promote Tiltyu, with the EXP rank the way it is. Not to mention I promote Tiltyu, because Tiltyu=<3. Her daughter too. </off topic> And then Levin and Fury. And Hospitals, on top of all those healing units, make healing to as "omg best thing in game" as you make it out to be. In fact, I can't even see why you would ever even imply that Healing>>>>Combat. Seriously. Ethlin could run around, healing every single unit every turn, non-stop, and that healing wouldn't make a difference. Healing doesn't kill enemy units. Healing doesn't kill bosses who guard castles, that you need to capture to proceed. However, killing people lets you proceed with the game. Killing those bosses on the castles lets you proceed with the game. Isn't it blatantly obvious how much more valuable killing things is? Is it more common? Yeah, thank god, but that doesn't make it any less useful. Anyway, I've proved that Holyn is MUCH MUCH MUCH superior in offense. This isn't even in question. I've shown that Holyn is more durable as well. Ethlin's avoid lead does not counter balance Holyn's HP and DEF win. Ethlin is better at healing (lol), but healing is not more important than raping (the thing that Holyn does). Not to mention, the chapters Holyn is around for, that Holyn is around to help in, are more difficult than the chapters that Ethlin is around for. So while they are around for an equal amount of chapters, the worth of the chapters they are both present for are by no means equal. So, Holyn greater than sign Ethlin. I hate arguing against Healers, btw. |
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| AdamNW | Sep 29 2007, 01:29 PM Post #7 |
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Needs moar Sety
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You plan on soloing the entire prologue with Sigurd?
Yeah. All 3 bosses can be OHKO'd by more then one unit. Can't say that for the prologue.
Uh When a unit has bad durability, they are either on the Back Line or always need healing, both of which cut down their ability to fight. Ethlin's avoid stops this from happening to her.
Not sure about the lover bonus crit, but I think it's 20+skl. Plenty high.
Potentially doing heavy damage to alot of enemies without wasting weapon use is bad I suppose...
*22. Lern2use Serenes. At range the Lightning spell is used which does 14 damage.
So, tell me. Who is good enough to kill every enemy in the arena and then survive Holyn's Luna? Not at Evans, I can tell you that. He OHKO's sure, but he may or may not be recruited on turn one, which is a bad thing for him.
She gets it for free, Holyn has to buy his Steel Blade. He starts with an Iron Blade, if you forgot. And Ethlin only gets in 1 attack on an enemy. Holyn apperantly gets 03480425349 attacks on the enemy turn, according to you and him OHKO'ing everything. His Steel Blade will require MUCH more repairing then the Light Brand. Overall, Ethlin should only have to repair it once or Twice. And Cuan can use the Give command if need be. Ethlin doesn't blow in the arena, either. She does alot of damage to any non mage with her light brand (assuming range, but I can't remember.).
Yeah, because that round 1 axe user and that round 2 mage are so scary. Ethlin does fine in the arena for the first few matches; they just take longer.
And Cuan.
Anyone who gets a village is taking away from everyone else. Thing is, according to you, Ethlin might actually need it.
Um... "Oh, poor Ethlin! She needs 10k to repair her Relive and Light Brand! Let's just give this village to Dew instead." Her needing money isn't a bad thing. Almost every other unit can complete the arena at some point in time in every chapter (actually, even Ethlin can), which is like 15k+ iirc. If anyone is getting a village, it's a healer. AKA Ethlin and Lachesis.
Again, read what I said. The maximum any unit can kill in one turn is 1 (two with Sylvia, but Sylvie isn't there for the Free Knights). If an enemy attacks Holyn, then every enemy in that squad goes for him. No matter what, all enemies attack the weakest unit within reach, and in most cases, that will be Holyn if he keeps killing them.
Ok? How is Holyn not getting killed when he is getting attacked by a lot of enemies in every Enemy turn? Even if he OHKO's Lance knights, they are attacking first for a lot of damage. Same goes for other mages or lance users. Ethlin is a back line unit from the moment she has the Light Brand. That way she isn't getting attacked often if ever (She has staves to counter her EXP loss, btw). Her fragile-ness (Whatever the hell the word is) isn't meaning much on the back line.
Huh? Very few enemies in the prologue have 35+ HP. Where the hell are you getting your stats from? And it's called "leveling her up with staves." Or you can give her a few kills here and there. It's not really hurting anyone. The only level one units here are Azel, Fin, and Ethlin.
Ok.
Holyn is still taking attacks more often, because, you know, he's a front line unit and all.
Ok. Holyn is still getting hit more.
I never said they were good in this chapter.
Kill he shouldn't be getting (or need). He doesn't need those kills, and every time he kills someone another comes in and tries to attack him.
So we are considering charisma and leadership now? Ethlin doesn't have 40.2 avo in the point above then; she has 60.2. 60 hit against lance knights, 30 against sword users.
If Ethlin didn't die, FE5 wouldn't have happened (at least not with Leaf). Only 3 units died for sure, anyway. Everyone else was put under the "Who knows what happened to them?" Category.
This still shows that Ethlin dying was a good thing.
Read above. No one knows what happened to a ton of those units. However, not everyone died. Levin died in a fight with Manfroy (iirc), Fury died of Illness, Aideen (iirc) is in Ganeshire (sp), etc. The only units I can remember that died in Bahara were Aira, Aira's husband, Sigurd, Ethlin, and Cuan.
Uh, she has 5 mov. Even your other foot units have to restrict their movement some. Chapter 2 roads... She isn't the only person getting road bonus, btw.
If every unit without pursuit didn't fight you wouldn't have many fighters. She has a Prayer Sword and Earth Sword. Those are pretty good. Come to think of it she isn't getting left behind, but only by a couple units. Your mounts are still moving far.
Never said it wasn't, but it's fair to assume that she isn't promoting for a while.
Capturing =/= Combat. And healing allows for the combat to continue longer. If a unit is near death, they can either pull back for a couple turns and wait for a church to heal them, or they can start attacking as soon as a healer heals them.
Excuse me, but when did I say that this wasn't true? I didn't. But read above anyway.
Um, ok.
Ethlin = Back line from the moment Holyn arrives. Defensive leads mean nothing for a healer.
You yourself said that combat is the hardest to achieve. How do you do it? With healing! %::%
Of course, healing units that get hit ALOT against axe users in the first two chapters means nothing.
No.
I hate debating elites, btw. |
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| +Ema Skye | Sep 29 2007, 04:23 PM Post #8 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Voat. |
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MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH
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8:41 AM Nov 8
