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| Nick vs Solid | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 23 2007, 07:34 PM (256 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | Sep 23 2007, 07:34 PM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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go go england? 
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 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Nick | Sep 24 2007, 03:10 PM Post #2 |
Brit
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Canas vs Rebecca, right? Well, it had better be, because if there's one thing I hate more than losing a debate post to the accursed backspace key when I clicked on the wrong thing, it's finding out that the post I've written is for a debate that was never actually meant to happen. It really vexes me, because it's like 'Gah I just wrote a long post and then I've found out that all my clever arguments were for nothing'. I can't even try to remember the points I made and then retype them (which is what I can do when I accidentally go back whilst typing a debate post; I don't have firefox, see) because, of course, all my points have become null. I could save them and use them in a possible future debate, I suppose, so I'll save a copy of this post to Word just in case. I think a lot of the elite debaters (i.e. the ones who care about their posts) actually do their posts on Word in the first place, a sensible move really. I should try employing it sometime. Canas is superior to Rebecca because stats are more reliable than supports and Canas's stats are generally superior while Rebecca's supports are generally superior. Actually, after this debate tournament, I'm planning to quit FE debating as one of my FEFF interests, which will probably lead to me leaving FEFF sooner or later. I'm kinda getting bored of it anyway. I'm really not sure what keeps many of the hardcore debaters going sometimes, they're all so boring to read. Well, except Simon, and when he's around he could vaguely be considered a hardcore debater, I suppose. He debates a lot in informal debating, at the least. I really find Simon quite entertaining; he manages to get points across well at the same time as incoroporating humour into his posts - something which most FE debaters distinctly lack. When Rebecca joins, Canas is more durable owing to greater defence and resistance (albeit slightly lower HP, assuming Rebecca is at about level ten) and neither of them will really be getting doubled by the generally slow enemies in Blazing Sword. I should write a tier list sometime for how entertaining to read debaters are. It would totally turn the tier lists like the one you wrote upside down, because many of the higher tier debaters are boring as hell to read, I'm sure you'll agree. I don't actually find you particularly uninteresting to read, Solid, but I've never actually read any debates you've been in, so that's rather unsurprising. Canas also gains Nosferatu fairly soon, which makes him an amazing tank for just letting enemies come in and attack him, and then he restores his health by taking advantage of their poor resistance. As mentioned before, enemies are largely too slow to take advantage of his speed loss. Anyway, Reikken just keeps turning tier lists upside down and inside out. It might be mildly amusing if I bothered reading posts longer than one line in the FE forums any more. As it is, I just read the first line of any post, realise that it's the same crap as I've read before: less skilled debaters repeating the words of the largely idolised 'skilled' debaters in less eloquent terms and making mistakes in the process. Oh, and of course, the 'skilled' debaters making occasional snide remarks at anyone who says otherwise. Of course, they do possess skill at debating, I'm not insulting any of them aside from saying that they're generally boring to read. Throughout the game, Canas demonstrates his superiority by constantly being able to attack at close quarters and at range, which Rebecca cannot do as she is locked to bows, which kind of sucks for her in the fields of fighting enemies and gaining experience. You see in my signature, where it says 'mourning the brutal murder of originality'? That refers to the FE forums in a way, because everything I read I have almost certainly read before. It goes on and on and on, boring me to tears. However, it never seems to bore anyone else, which brings me to the point of this post. I believe, in trying a hitherto unseen debate tactic, I will bore you so much that you will make a response that is totally useless. Of course, I'm probably wrong, but it's good fun all the same, and if you want, I'll be more serious after you've posted your nice, long, statestical post up after - hopefully - ignoring this long stream of crap. If you haven't ignored it but gone through it, picking out the worthwhile bits and countering them with the truth (I know how bad my hidden arguments are, but if I made them convincing, they'd also be conspicuous, which would defeat the point of my post) then I feel for you, honestly. Superior stats and being able to attack at both ranges is by far superior to having better supports but being locked to the one, less common range, therefore Canas is superior. Having nothing better to do is the reason I'm writing this post, and could be the only plausible reason for you reading it and picking out the bits that matter, because there is no way any human being could read through this and not get bored - unless, of course, I have once again overestimated humanity. This is quite possible, I have done so many times, and it would barely surprise me to find that I have done it again in this unexciting world of Fire Emblem debating. I much prefer playing the games to debating them myself. You can tell me chapter sixteen of your own life story if you like, I might even read it. I rest my case until you respond, whereupon I will open it again. |
| jesus somebody get onto msn | |
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Sep 24 2007, 06:51 PM Post #3 |
 
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I was hoping to use Lyn against you, but ok, since you've already written this.
lol, wut. "Supports aren't reliable"? If you're talking about reliability in terms of constancy, then Supports > stats. Stats are subject to the whims of the RNG, whereas something like A Fire x Fire will always provide the same set of bonuses. If you're talking about reliability due to having to place two units within three spaces of each other, then lol. That's easy to do. Between three Supporting units, one unit can be three entire spaces to the right and one can be three entire spaces to the left, making for a total range of 7 squares between the enemies that the Supporters to the left and right are attacking, 9-10 (diagonals ftw) squares if those units happen to be wielding 2-range weapons. Enemies are not 9-10 spaces apart. So much for your "Supports aren't reliable" argument. Now let's see a real comparison of Rebecca vs. Canas 20/10 Rebecca, A Lowen/B Dart Killer Bow: 30.2 Atk, 154 Hit, 70 Crit, 22.7 AS | 37.8 HP, 88.4 Avo, 9.2 Def, 11.4 Res Silver Bow: 35.2 Atk, 154 Hit, 40 Crit, 23.7 AS | 37.8 HP, 90.4 Avo, 9.2 Def, 11.4 Res 20/10 Canas, B Pent Flux: 27.4 Atk, 133.8 Hit, 8.7 Crit, 18.3 AS | 39.7 HP, 58.8 Avo, 14.2 Def, 21.4 Res Canas really doesn't have anyone besides Pent (and Erk might want Pent too if Erk is in play, so Canas doesn't have exclusive rights to him--the differences in bonuses is marginal at best) since Nino, Vaida, and Bartre are unlikely choices, so Rebecca is benefiting more Support partners, w1n. Uh, lol. More Attack, Hit, Crit, and AS ftw? Rebecca wins offense. She has massive Avoid for defenses--so much Avoid that most enemies will have close to 0% real chance to hit her. She has the game's highest Avoid (with the exception of maybe Legault or Ninian, in the unlikely case that Legault promotes or that Ninian gets an Eliwood Support). Winning offense and defense and Supports ftw. There's not even a contest here!!!!!!!shift.
lol, Canas' wins in Defense and Resistance earlygame are marginal at best (5 Def compared to 4 Def is not a significant difference). More significant is Rebecca's Avoid lead--without Supports, she already has about 10 more Avoid than he does. However, Canas has to wait for Pent, while Rebecca is building Supports, so this gap increases. Also, Rebecca has 170% total Avoid growth, whereas Canas has 95%. And then you cleverly neglected offense. Canas, with his amazing 7 AS, is not doubling much of anything, whereas Rebecca with 11.4 AS is doubling most things (and with her high Speed growth, she'll soon be doubling even those pesky Myrms). She also helps Support partners with offensive boosts, so that's another win for her offensively.
He might get it "fairly soon," but you can't purchase it, so it's not really a major thing he's got going for him. Plus, unpromoted Canas loses 7 AS from Nosferatu, and promoted Canas loses 6. 20/0 Canas - 7 AS = 5ish AS, lol, which means that enemies with 9 or more Speed can double him (and higher-end enemies after Chapter 20 have around 12-14). Also significant, however, is the fact that he himself will never double with Nosferatu equipped. He'd need his enemies to have 0 Speed to double them, and even Knights and Generals have at least 2-3 by that time. Not dying but never killing isn't worth much. But then Canas is dying--not only is he doubled, but Nosferatu has low Hit (and missing means he doesn't recover HP). Add to that the fact that Canas' raw defensive parameters aren't anything to be awed at, and you have "tank" far out of the question.
Unfortunately, Canas really has no viable Support options other than Pent, so his durability is considerably lacking in comparison to Rebecca's. Attacking at close range isn't going to do him much good if he shouldn't be attacking on Enemy Phase (14 Def and 55 Avoid is not good). Also, his prepromotion AS sucks, and while Rebecca can force ranged opponents to evoke a counter from her, Canas can never force enemies to lower their Speed values. Postpromotion, yeasurewhatever. Rebecca's Crit and still-greater AS >>>> Canas' ability to attack at close range.
You're going to have Supports, so they actually count in "superior stats." And Rebecca's statistical advantages over Canas are just too great to say that "Canas counters at close range, so he wins." She has massive Crit, AS, and Avo, and...what else do you need, really? With a Killer Bow, she's just about the best unit in the game statistically. Only her class holds her back--this might allow units like Kent to one-up her, but not someone like Canas. Canas can't compare in any way, defensively or offensively. Also, I lol'd several times while reading that. Yes, most so-called "elite" debaters are indeed boring, but debating is what we like to do. I think I'm perfectly capable of incorporating comedy into my posts, but I don't feel like I want to waste the time to do so. Personal preference, really. I get the feeling you're not really into this, so I didn't go too in-depth. Good luck and maybe we can do something fun later like Nino vs. Pent or something. kk, so, as usual, I'll conclude my opener with Rebecca >>> Canas. |
| this is the best Brawl match ever....EVER | |
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4:15 PM Nov 8
