Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Fire Emblem Fusion. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Locked Topic
Jeigan vs Mekkah
Topic Started: Oct 13 2007, 09:29 PM (442 Views)
+Ema Skye
Member Avatar
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
Advisor
ohsnapz

time for some moar tl;dr
Posted Image

MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Big Boss
Member Avatar

FEFFer
Azel has Fala blood, which is absolute w1n. If that doesn't convince you that Azel is superior, we can go through the longer version of the debaet.

I'll try to make it as short as possible so everyone can have a nice time reading this >_>

So, a quick overview of the chapters...

Prologue: Azel can one round the axe users. Alec never one rounds them. Alec wins defense, yes, but Azel attacks without getting counterattacked, and he got the HP to survive an attack during the enemy phase, so he's doing fine. Furthermore, Azel can counterattack bow users and hand axe people in case he gets attacked. Azel's offense>Alec.

Chapter 1: Azel has gained some level ups from Prologue and chapter 1 arena. Thanks to that, his MAG is still good enough to one round. Enemies are of the same type as prologue, so the situation mentioned above is repeated. When you are crossing the Spirit Forest place, you can notice it is only 1 tile wide. Azel is ideal here as you can have someone attack at the front while Azel snipes from behind. Alec has no redeeming features.

Chapter 2: Azel gets Thunder, meaning some AS, Avoid, and mantains his high attack. Azel has a considerable win against armors, while Alec's movement is also useful. Not a clear winner here.

Chapter 3: The most dangerous enemies here are Eltosian's Cross Knights, who can be bitches and attack with javelins, so Azel can do a good job standing in a forest (there are a lot of them where that battle takes place) and counterattacking some dudes to make your life easier, while Alec is mediocre at best.

By the final part of this chapter Azel can wtfraep the pirates and our units would be promoting. Azel gets a mount, so Alec loses his most important advantage, and then...

Chapter 4: Azel gets a conversation with Tiltyu, boosting his HP by 5 points and surpassing Alec's own HP. During the first part of the chapter you fight some wind mages, Azel can use Elfire to get WTA and still inflict massive damage or switch to a Wind tome and double, plus he always takes those magical hits better. Against the Pegasus Knights, Azel can double with his Wind tome. Azel is clearly better here.

Chapter 5: pfff Axe and Bow Knights with 1 RES, Velthomer's mages throwing meteors at you, Wyverns with high HP and DEF, shit RES and raping Alec with their horseslayers. This map is Heaven for Azel. On top of that, he should already be in love with Tiltyu so he benefits another unit, while Alec dies unloved.

It is more than obvious. Azel is the superior unit.

Posted Image
^^by comatose from NationalSigLeague^^

Kratos/Jeigan
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Mekkah

FEFFer
Quote:
 
Azel has Fala blood, which is absolute w1n. If that doesn't convince you that Azel is superior, we can go through the longer version of the debaet.


Yeah, I'd love to be related to the mass murderer Alvis.

Quote:
 
I'll try to make it as short as possible so everyone can have a nice time reading this >_>


Good luck with that.

Quote:
 
Prologue: Azel can one round the axe users. Alec never one rounds them. Alec wins defense, yes, but Azel attacks without getting counterattacked, and he got the HP to survive an attack during the enemy phase, so he's doing fine. Furthermore, Azel can counterattack bow users and hand axe people in case he gets attacked. Azel's offense>Alec.


If by "the axe users" you mean the L1 ones, yes. Azel will kill two of those per turn - one on player phase, and one on enemy phase. Any more means a very high death risk, since Azel comes with NEGATIVE evasion so these guys have like 82 hit on him, and he gets 2HKOed. He also gets counterattacked by the Hand Axe Brigands and doesn't one-round them. Meanwhile Alec can take two hits of 12 without dying, and only gets hit 32% of the time...and he'll also be near Sigurd a lot which makes that 22%, and is also much more accessible for some Ethlin healing.

Alec safely hitting stuff all the time for 10EXP a pop setting up kills for Noish/Fin/whoever >>>>> Azel's 60EXP on turn 1 and then needing healing from a church and never being able to face more than one enemy at the same time. Alec is overall doing more damage, gets hit less, takes less damage, helps out your team, AND makes fun of Ardan while he's at it.

Quote:
 
Chapter 1: Azel has gained some level ups from Prologue and chapter 1 arena. Thanks to that, his MAG is still good enough to one round. Enemies are of the same type as prologue, so the situation mentioned above is repeated. When you are crossing the Spirit Forest place, you can notice it is only 1 tile wide. Azel is ideal here as you can have someone attack at the front while Azel snipes from behind. Alec has no redeeming features.


Alec has gained more level ups both from Prologue and the arena since he is more durable and stands a chance against that faggot Shark. Azel is still dying horribly if you expose him to more than one enemy at the same time, Alec is dodging like a champ. Alec is also outrunning Azel all the way until you start running through the Spirit Forest, so he has access to more enemies. If Azel is even there in time to walk with the rest of the group, he can get hit by the brigands easily, who can walk over the forest peaks. Oh, and he gets massacred by both Ayra and Jamka and cannot run away from them, while Alec's Awareness and mobility HELPS you to recruit these two.

Quote:
 
Chapter 2: Azel gets Thunder, meaning some AS, Avoid, and mantains his high attack. Azel has a considerable win against armors, while Alec's movement is also useful. Not a clear winner here.


Azel is lucky if he gets to get a glimpse of Voltz' Free Knight army. His mobility is so terrible that he might just have to wait until you're going for Clement. The situation of these two versus Armors greatly resembles the earlier chapter brigands. The weakest Armor (47/0 HP/Res) can be one rounded by even a L4 Azel, however Alec can 2-round them with an Iron Lance with his 24 Atk hitting twice on 12 Def. But unlike Alec, Azel doesn't have to take cover on the enemy phase or get healed every time he attacks something with a Javelin.

Quote:
 
Chapter 3: The most dangerous enemies here are Eltosian's Cross Knights, who can be bitches and attack with javelins, so Azel can do a good job standing in a forest (there are a lot of them where that battle takes place) and counterattacking some dudes to make your life easier, while Alec is mediocre at best.

By the final part of this chapter Azel can wtfraep the pirates and our units would be promoting. Azel gets a mount, so Alec loses his most important advantage, and then...


They have like 37 hit with Javelin on L15 Thunder Azel in a forest and they 3HKO him. Pretty risky if you ask me. Generally if they go for Azel they will use their Steel Swords which have 57 hit on him and still 3HKO. If Elthsan's in range with his 5 star leadership that is pretty painful for him. In the meanwhile, if Azel is L15 here, we can safely assume Alec is promoted. He can use a Javelin and double them ranged, or he can use a Steel Lance and have 32 Atk, which 3HKOs if he's only L20, 2HKO if higher. Or he can just use a Steel Sword and deal 16x2=32 damage. Soo mediocre.

Azel still dies pretty horribly to the pirates, while they pretty much have lol% hit on Alec. Can't see how Azel can fight at both Orgahil and Silvail anyway, he isn't exactly quick on his feet, and Aideen should be at Orgahil as soon as you seize Silvail because she wants to say hi to her sister.

Ok, so we'll be really nice by assuming that Azel promotes at this point. For this to happen, Azel would need 19 levels from Prologue to Ch3. We'll substract 4 for a little more than 1 level per arena (which is fair - Azel sucks there and never gets past the generic Swordfighters). Leaves 15, so a little less than 4 levels per chapter. You need about 4 enemies for a level, so that makes...16 times setting up some kill for frail Azel after which you have to protect him from anything else, times four chapters = massive loads of babying. That sounds like a lot of trouble to me!

Quote:
 
Chapter 4: Azel gets a conversation with Tiltyu, boosting his HP by 5 points and surpassing Alec's own HP. During the first part of the chapter you fight some wind mages, Azel can use Elfire to get WTA and still inflict massive damage or switch to a Wind tome and double, plus he always takes those magical hits better. Against the Pegasus Knights, Azel can double with his Wind tome. Azel is clearly better here.


Yes, Azel has a 1HP/4 Res lead on Alec at equal levels. Except Alec has had a level lead ever since he joined and it only increased every chapter. Alec can one-round any Wind Mage on Player Phase because he is hitting on their wetpaper Def, and then switch to Javelin to discourage any attacking towards him, or just stand on a forest and dodge. On Peggies, Alec can one-round all of them except Deetva with the Wing Clipper.

And if Azel is talking to Tiltyu that would put him slightly behind on schedule compared to Alec, and if he's being paired to her he has to stay next to her and hardly have any fighting at all.

Quote:
 
Chapter 5: pfff Axe and Bow Knights with 1 RES, Velthomer's mages throwing meteors at you, Wyverns with high HP and DEF, shit RES and raping Alec with their horseslayers. This map is Heaven for Azel. On top of that, he should already be in love with Tiltyu so he benefits another unit, while Alec dies unloved.


Alec isn't getting hit by the Axe knights, Azel is and then he'll be in trouble. Meteor guys can be fugged up by Fury and the gap between Alec and Azel is like super small in durability there, I could go in exact calculations but judges are still recovering from my 60 page essay last time. Yes, Alec is being raped so badly by Horsesla...hey wait he has Awareness and access to the Wing Clipper, fuck them :) You know who gets raped by Horseslayers? Azel. If he wants to benefit Tiltyu he should stay back with her and her 5 move. Tiltyu sucks anyways and should be killing Mountain Thieves or something for EXP.

Alec clearly wins in durability always thanks to lighter weapons, WTC, hit and run and more often access to leadership. Azel sometimes wins in raw offense but cannot utilize this at all due to poor mobility early on and his ever-present fragilty. Alec certainly never dies unloved - the rest of the army loves him for his fighting ability. Azel is in love with a rather cute woman, yes, but being loved by everyone in the army > being loved by Tiltyu and getting yelled at for being a drag and a pansy.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Big Boss
Member Avatar

FEFFer
Quote:
 
Yeah, I'd love to be related to the mass murderer Alvis.


And to the Fire Crusader Fala. People with holy blood are better fighters by nature.

Quote:
 
If by "the axe users" you mean the L1 ones, yes. Azel will kill two of those per turn - one on player phase, and one on enemy phase. Any more means a very high death risk, since Azel comes with NEGATIVE evasion so these guys have like 82 hit on him, and he gets 2HKOed. He also gets counterattacked by the Hand Axe Brigands and doesn't one-round them. Meanwhile Alec can take two hits of 12 without dying, and only gets hit 32% of the time...and he'll also be near Sigurd a lot which makes that 22%, and is also much more accessible for some Ethlin healing.


Fortunately, this map doesn't have particularly large groups of enemies (until you head to Evans) so Azel is doing perfectly fine. When he joins, there is even a village and some forests he can use to his advantage, and his friend Lex can cover him from other enemies. Then in a few turns, he reaches Sigurd's group and can receive the leadership bonus and healing from Ethlin (plus, Ethlin wants to heal as much as possible, you are not limting her to heal just the mounted guys). That's a very minor advantage that Alec has just for a few turns. While Azel can survive perfectly fine, there is nothing Alec can do to save his offense.

And what happens when you head to Evans, you ask? You have someone stay at the bridge while almighty Azel snipes from behind with his fire tome and Alec does nothing. Yet another advantage.

Quote:
 
Alec safely hitting stuff all the time for 10EXP a pop setting up kills for Noish/Fin/whoever >>>>> Azel's 60EXP on turn 1 and then needing healing from a church and never being able to face more than one enemy at the same time. Alec is overall doing more damage, gets hit less, takes less damage, helps out your team, AND makes fun of Ardan while he's at it.


Azel having the guarantee of killing some enemies is already great. But you also mention handaxe dudes and I'm sure there are some other higher leveled enemies that Azel doesn't kill, so in that case he's doing the same as Alec; weakening so other unit gets the kill. But, Azel deals more damage, so that helps units with suckier offense like Ethlin and Arden to get the kills easily.

Quote:
 
Alec has gained more level ups both from Prologue and the arena since he is more durable and stands a chance against that faggot Shark. Azel is still dying horribly if you expose him to more than one enemy at the same time, Alec is dodging like a champ. Alec is also outrunning Azel all the way until you start running through the Spirit Forest, so he has access to more enemies. If Azel is even there in time to walk with the rest of the group, he can get hit by the brigands easily, who can walk over the forest peaks. Oh, and he gets massacred by both Ayra and Jamka and cannot run away from them, while Alec's Awareness and mobility HELPS you to recruit these two.


Alec is not getting more experience during Prologue than Azel, since Azel is actually killing. As for the Arena, if Alec has gained a point of speed from his level ups, Shark still is faster than him, so Alec is gonne get Pursuit'd and raped by him.

When the chapter starts, the mounted units take the lead, so the enemies are going to attack them, instead of Azel, who's at the back, waiting to rape during your turn and get covered by the cavalry. Once again, he's not dying while still hitting hard.

You say Alec outruns Azel all the time and recruits Ayra? Sorry, but that's a bit contradictory. You see, while Alec makes a stop to lure the Isaacian swordfighter, Azel keeps advancing and starts fighting the group that was sent after Dew and Eddain, earning him even more experience and eliminating Alec's movement lead for now. Then when Ayra is recruited and Alec catches up with the group you are going to cross the Spirit Forest, where Alec's movement lead doesn't exist again and Azel is much more useful at the part that is only 1 tile wide, as explained before. Azel did better and got more experience.

Quote:
 
Azel is lucky if he gets to get a glimpse of Voltz' Free Knight army. His mobility is so terrible that he might just have to wait until you're going for Clement. The situation of these two versus Armors greatly resembles the earlier chapter brigands. The weakest Armor (47/0 HP/Res) can be one rounded by even a L4 Azel, however Alec can 2-round them with an Iron Lance with his 24 Atk hitting twice on 12 Def. But unlike Alec, Azel doesn't have to take cover on the enemy phase or get healed every time he attacks something with a Javelin.


I grant you that Azel won't be able to fight much against Heirhein, but while some of your units are busy fighting the boss at Heirhein castle, Azel can catch up. Plus, Voltz's group also spends a few turns moving. More than enough for Azel to be already there. Oh, and speaking of Voltz's army, his Free Knights have 5 AS, so our level 10 Azel with Thunder (6 AS) one rounds them (they have 0 RES, yay). Furthermore, if Sylvia and Levin are already with the main group, and Sylvia dances for Azel, he can crush 2 Free Knights without receiving damage. If Alec receives the same treatment, he only kills one enemy and receives damage. Azel ftw.

Now let's check the Armor Situation. The weakest one you mention has 47 HP, and, according to your samples, 12 DEF. If Alec has 12 STR and Iron lance he deals 24 damage per round. He isn't two rounding. Furthermore, Iron Lance kills his avoid, so even if he has WTA the enemy has a good chance at hitting. More so since there are Armors with different type of weapons (so if he equips a lance an axe armour rapes him) and if he equips a sword, he deals laughable damage. I wouldn't even call Alec more durable here, as he has to take more counters (2 at least in order to kill).

Quote:
 
They have like 37 hit with Javelin on L15 Thunder Azel in a forest and they 3HKO him. Pretty risky if you ask me. Generally if they go for Azel they will use their Steel Swords which have 57 hit on him and still 3HKO. If Elthsan's in range with his 5 star leadership that is pretty painful for him. In the meanwhile, if Azel is L15 here, we can safely assume Alec is promoted. He can use a Javelin and double them ranged, or he can use a Steel Lance and have 32 Atk, which 3HKOs if he's only L20, 2HKO if higher. Or he can just use a Steel Sword and deal 16x2=32 damage. Soo mediocre.


Eltosian moves last, so his leadership is only an issue during your turn. Lachesis will likely be near Azel since she wants to approach Elto as soon as possible, and Sigurd will also be there, ready to pwn some noobs, so the enemies can have 17 and 37 hit with Javelin and Steel sword respectively, and even if he isn't receiving the bonus, the chances of many Cross Knights actually attacking him are slim, since you can strategically place Azel where he gets attacked by only 3~ of them as the forests limit the enemies' movement as well.

Quote:
 
Azel still dies pretty horribly to the pirates, while they pretty much have lol% hit on Alec. Can't see how Azel can fight at both Orgahil and Silvail anyway, he isn't exactly quick on his feet, and Aideen should be at Orgahil as soon as you seize Silvail because she wants to say hi to her sister.


Cross Knights get owned -> Sigurd and some other units head toward Silvail, Azel makes his way to Orgahill -> Sigurd conquers, Azel is ready for action.

Quote:
 
Azel still dies pretty horribly to the pirates, while they pretty much have lol% hit on Alec. Can't see how Azel can fight at both Orgahil and Silvail anyway, he isn't exactly quick on his feet, and Aideen should be at Orgahil as soon as you seize Silvail because she wants to say hi to her sister.


The pirates have horrid Skill. The ones with Iron Axes have about 50% hit on Azel, while the handaxe ones have 30% hit. That means that in order for Azel to die he needs to be attacked by a lot of them (3 of them need to hit for him to die).

And, since the pirates have high HP, some units (*coughAleccough*) Azel is once again ideal for the sniping job

Quote:
 
Ok, so we'll be really nice by assuming that Azel promotes at this point. For this to happen, Azel would need 19 levels from Prologue to Ch3. We'll substract 4 for a little more than 1 level per arena (which is fair - Azel sucks there and never gets past the generic Swordfighters). Leaves 15, so a little less than 4 levels per chapter. You need about 4 enemies for a level, so that makes...16 times setting up some kill for frail Azel after which you have to protect him from anything else, times four chapters = massive loads of babying. That sounds like a lot of trouble to me!


Eh...I honestly have no idea of what are you trying to prove here. Alec is never one rounding reliably, so he's the one who needs someone else (like Azel) to set up a kill for him. As for the arenas, both can't win against the swift swordmen, but in chapter 4, Alec won't be able to beat the Mage Knight in round 5, while Azel is perfectly capable of finishing the Arena here. If anything, Azel is winning here.

Quote:
 

Yes, Azel has a 1HP/4 Res lead on Alec at equal levels. Except Alec has had a level lead ever since he joined and it only increased every chapter. Alec can one-round any Wind Mage on Player Phase because he is hitting on their wetpaper Def, and then switch to Javelin to discourage any attacking towards him, or just stand on a forest and dodge. On Peggies, Alec can one-round all of them except Deetva with the Wing Clipper.

And if Azel is talking to Tiltyu that would put him slightly behind on schedule compared to Alec, and if he's being paired to her he has to stay next to her and hardly have any fighting at all.


omg stop saying he has a level lead...!

Oh yeah, and the Wind mages, with their Elwind tomes hit Alec's wetpaper RES, forcing him to retreat or get targeted by a sleep staff and then proceed to die, and if he switches to Javelin, he has no chance of dodging their attacks, anyway.

Now, Pegasus Knight thing. Level 22 Alec with Wingclipper has 46 attack on them, before substracting defense, so that would be 36 damage per attack and since the bitches have their slims swords equipped, thay are actually doubling Alec. And then, why should Alec get the Wingclipper? I could give it to Noish, who has no pursuit, so he needs to deal as much damage as possible or Beowulf, who is at a lower level and needs the experience more.

Level 22 Azel with wind, on the other hand, doubles them for 21x2 damage, and he receives no damage thanks to attacking from a space away.

So, when Alec has wingclipper, Azel wins, when Alec doesn't have wingclipper, Azel crushes him.

Now, I don't know why Azel can't stay near Tiltyu and fight. Tiltyu has to fight, anyway, or your exp. rank suffers. In fact, Azel being there helps here to get easy kills, and therefore, indirectly help the exp. rank.

Quote:
 
Alec isn't getting hit by the Axe knights, Azel is and then he'll be in trouble. Meteor guys can be fugged up by Fury and the gap between Alec and Azel is like super small in durability there, I could go in exact calculations but judges are still recovering from my 60 page essay last time. Yes, Alec is being raped so badly by Horsesla...hey wait he has Awareness and access to the Wing Clipper, fuck them smile.gif You know who gets raped by Horseslayers? Azel. If he wants to benefit Tiltyu he should stay back with her and her 5 move. Tiltyu sucks anyways and should be killing Mountain Thieves or something for EXP.


Well, first of all, Azel gets da thunder sword and raeps an Axe Knight during your turn while getting WTA. If he's liek level 25 and gets targetted, the axe knight has 34 hit, which is already not reliable, but, oh wait, you are moving your units at their fullest to reach Byron, so he's getting +20% avoid from Sigurd and Lachesis.

In the same situation, Alec is dodging as well, but not killing as easily. A winrar is Azel.

Durability gap against meteor guys is not as slim as you think. Why? Because they will always target Alec instead of Azel, and Azel can equip a thunder tome and get +20 Avoid.

As for Wyverns, yeah, indeed, I made a mistake thar, Alec doesn't get critical'd. However, there is the fact that Alec may not be the Wingclipper user, and in that case, he loses offense horribly.

Defensively, they have 84 hit, level 25 Azel (Wind) has 45 Avd + 10 from Tiltyu + 20 from Sigurd and Lachesis and get 75 avoid. And since you are near the desert and your units were limited in movement, it's really easy to keep all the group together, so the +30% bonus is definitely likely Oh, and Azel doesn't have to stay back to get bonuses from Tiltyu. The lover bonus has a 3 tile radius range.

Quote:
 

Alec clearly wins in durability always thanks to lighter weapons, WTC, hit and run and more often access to leadership. Azel sometimes wins in raw offense but cannot utilize this at all due to poor mobility early on and his ever-present fragilty. Alec certainly never dies unloved - the rest of the army loves him for his fighting ability. Azel is in love with a rather cute woman, yes, but being loved by everyone in the army > being loved by Tiltyu and getting yelled at for being a drag and a pansy.


It is questionable if Alec truly wins durability as he has to take more counters. Azel's movement hurts him a bit, but he makes up that by attacking from away, so he has a 7 tile range before promotion, which is the same as other unmounted units like Ayra. Alec, however, while having higher movement, is never able to one round stuff like Azel does, so overall Azel w1ns offense, easily, more so in chapters 4 and 5, where he is promoted and has more Attack AND range than Alec (well, Alec can have as much range, but he has to equip a phail weapon).

If the rest of the army loves Alec because of his fighting abilities, then the love they feel for Azel is beyond words. Plus, Alec spends the night thinking of ways of being mean to Arden, Azel spends the nights having love-filled sex with Tiltyu.
Posted Image
^^by comatose from NationalSigLeague^^

Kratos/Jeigan
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Mekkah

FEFFer
Quote:
 
And to the Fire Crusader Fala. People with holy blood are better fighters by nature.


You'd think people with Holy Blood would be competent enough to ride a horse, but apparently Azel doesn't do that until Alec showed him to do it for 19 levels.

Quote:
 
Fortunately, this map doesn't have particularly large groups of enemies (until you head to Evans) so Azel is doing perfectly fine. When he joins, there is even a village and some forests he can use to his advantage, and his friend Lex can cover him from other enemies. Then in a few turns, he reaches Sigurd's group and can receive the leadership bonus and healing from Ethlin (plus, Ethlin wants to heal as much as possible, you are not limting her to heal just the mounted guys). That's a very minor advantage that Alec has just for a few turns. While Azel can survive perfectly fine, there is nothing Alec can do to save his offense.

And what happens when you head to Evans, you ask? You have someone stay at the bridge while almighty Azel snipes from behind with his fire tome and Alec does nothing. Yet another advantage.


Oh yes +20% avoid for Azel. Now he's only getting hit 62% of the time, so his chance of dying from two attacks is "only" 38%. Lex has even less evade than Azel, and dies in 4 hits from your average brigand. He has no time to protect Azel because he's got that village to save in the northwest corner. Sigurd's group is moving to Jungby last time I checked to not find Aideen, where Ethlin should also go because there's more wounds to heal. Azel is not getting leadership until everyone reunites at Evans, and even there his durability is absolute shit. Alec's offense is saved by the fact that he can attack a lot more often: you can put him in the range of three axefighters at once and live, kill one and move on, while some retard like Fin or Ardan can deal finishing blows.

Sorry, I'm not going to put someone on the bridge for -10% avoid and weaken things for Azel so we get an enormous queue and a lot of my units standing behind there doing nothing. Using everyone that period > using a shield for Azel + using Azel. Takes less time, too.

Quote:
 
Azel having the guarantee of killing some enemies is already great. But you also mention handaxe dudes and I'm sure there are some other higher leveled enemies that Azel doesn't kill, so in that case he's doing the same as Alec; weakening so other unit gets the kill. But, Azel deals more damage, so that helps units with suckier offense like Ethlin and Arden to get the kills easily.


The only person Azel can set up kills for against a Hand Axe dude is Lex. Alec is doing it for anyone who wants it of Cuan/Fin/Ethlin/Ardan/Noish, and he is also not getting 2HKOed at a very high probability at that point unlike Azel.

Quote:
 
Alec is not getting more experience during Prologue than Azel, since Azel is actually killing. As for the Arena, if Alec has gained a point of speed from his level ups, Shark still is faster than him, so Alec is gonne get Pursuit'd and raped by him.

When the chapter starts, the mounted units take the lead, so the enemies are going to attack them, instead of Azel, who's at the back, waiting to rape during your turn and get covered by the cavalry. Once again, he's not dying while still hitting hard.

You say Alec outruns Azel all the time and recruits Ayra? Sorry, but that's a bit contradictory. You see, while Alec makes a stop to lure the Isaacian swordfighter, Azel keeps advancing and starts fighting the group that was sent after Dew and Eddain, earning him even more experience and eliminating Alec's movement lead for now. Then when Ayra is recruited and Alec catches up with the group you are going to cross the Spirit Forest, where Alec's movement lead doesn't exist again and Azel is much more useful at the part that is only 1 tile wide, as explained before. Azel did better and got more experience.


Azel is killing two enemies around where he comes, and then maybe two or three more at Evans bridge or something. Alec is weakening nonstop and can also finish off whatever he started by himself throughout the ENTIRE Prologue. If Alec just gains a point of Spd in Prologue, he ties Shark by borrowing Ethlin's Slim Sword. If he fails to beat him he can always try again later in the chapter. Azel is never ever going to beat him. Alec can also beat the AxeArmor of stage 5, wooh.

Alec could also beat Azel to getting to Aideen if he wanted to. Then it's basically crippling/killing one on player phase followed by getting raped horribly on enemy phase for Azel versus crippling one on player phase then crippling more on player phase without dying. You don't face the enemies in the space that is one tile wide, more likely by the time you're there Jamka is recruited (with Alec's help, likely) and most if not all enemies are dead. There's one or two that walk beside the 1-tile-wide space that Azel can get attacked by anyway. Again, Azel is 2HKOed at this point and Alec lives FOREVER.

Quote:
 
I grant you that Azel won't be able to fight much against Heirhein, but while some of your units are busy fighting the boss at Heirhein castle, Azel can catch up. Plus, Voltz's group also spends a few turns moving. More than enough for Azel to be already there. Oh, and speaking of Voltz's army, his Free Knights have 5 AS, so our level 10 Azel with Thunder (6 AS) one rounds them (they have 0 RES, yay). Furthermore, if Sylvia and Levin are already with the main group, and Sylvia dances for Azel, he can crush 2 Free Knights without receiving damage. If Alec receives the same treatment, he only kills one enemy and receives damage. Azel ftw.

Now let's check the Armor Situation. The weakest one you mention has 47 HP, and, according to your samples, 12 DEF. If Alec has 12 STR and Iron lance he deals 24 damage per round. He isn't two rounding. Furthermore, Iron Lance kills his avoid, so even if he has WTA the enemy has a good chance at hitting. More so since there are Armors with different type of weapons (so if he equips a lance an axe armour rapes him) and if he equips a sword, he deals laughable damage. I wouldn't even call Alec more durable here, as he has to take more counters (2 at least in order to kill).


For Levin to save the Bargain Ring, you need to seize Heirhein castle before turn 11, and it's possible to do it in 10. Even if Azel moves completely unhindered, he will still not make it there. The Free Knights move towards your group, and ideally you just keep rushing forward to the next castle for the tactics rating. Azel will probably get there by the time everyone is traveling backwards. Azel's not fighting there.

24 damage per round means 48 damage in two rounds, so that sounds like two rounding to me. "Taking counters" only applies to the player phase, where Alec can hit and run to hide behind someone else or step back into a forest anyway. Azel has no such treatment on player phase, and cannot resort to sniping during enemy phase.

Quote:
 
Eltosian moves last, so his leadership is only an issue during your turn. Lachesis will likely be near Azel since she wants to approach Elto as soon as possible, and Sigurd will also be there, ready to pwn some noobs, so the enemies can have 17 and 37 hit with Javelin and Steel sword respectively, and even if he isn't receiving the bonus, the chances of many Cross Knights actually attacking him are slim, since you can strategically place Azel where he gets attacked by only 3~ of them as the forests limit the enemies' movement as well.


Whatever, Alec could stand on the fucking road and take 5 Javelins for 8 damage a pop on his 44 HP (or Steel Sword hits for 6 damage so he'd get...8HKOed) without taking any chances at all. Then you can let some other units (Noish I guess) finish them off for EXP. Alec also has the option of OHKOing any of them on Player phase with the Horseslayer, btw.

Quote:
 
Cross Knights get owned -> Sigurd and some other units head toward Silvail, Azel makes his way to Orgahill -> Sigurd conquers, Azel is ready for action.


Silvail is a stone's throw away from the bushbush whereas the to-be-a-bridge to Orgahil is a far walk for Azel. Even taking the castle guards and Shagaal into account Azel probably won't be there in time. You should have people positioned there already for the Dragon Knight attack, who can also handle the pirates. Also, Alec fighting at Silvail vs Azel going on hike, which sounds more useful to you?

Quote:
 
The pirates have horrid Skill. The ones with Iron Axes have about 50% hit on Azel, while the handaxe ones have 30% hit. That means that in order for Azel to die he needs to be attacked by a lot of them (3 of them need to hit for him to die).

And, since the pirates have high HP, some units (*coughAleccough*) Azel is once again ideal for the sniping job


I'll take Jamka or Midir for that anyday since they are also there for the Dragon Knights, and Midir can hit-and-run to make room for more. Blocking with one unit and sniping with Azel also makes it a pretty long wait over the bridge, whereas multiple units ramming through the ranks allows you to get to Tiltyu and co faster. Also, Azel gets 2HKOed by Pirzarl.

Quote:
 
Eh...I honestly have no idea of what are you trying to prove here. Alec is never one rounding reliably, so he's the one who needs someone else (like Azel) to set up a kill for him. As for the arenas, both can't win against the swift swordmen, but in chapter 4, Alec won't be able to beat the Mage Knight in round 5, while Azel is perfectly capable of finishing the Arena here. If anything, Azel is winning here.


Allow me to explain. For Azel to kill something on player phase, then not die on enemy phase, he has to be among the group, he needs an enemy he can one-round, and then the rest of the group has to stand around him so he is not attacked on enemy phase, where he also is not gaining any EXP then (unless he gets sniped, which is all the worse for him). Alec is not reliant on that one player phase attack for his EXP, as he can gain EXP just by dodging or surviving on enemy phase. Alec can indeed beat swift swordsmen. Azel can die to the Falcoknight in round 4, if not earlier, and the Hero Axe Warrior of round 6 with 106 Hit Hero Axe isn't pretty for him either.

Quote:
 
omg stop saying he has a level lead...!

Oh yeah, and the Wind mages, with their Elwind tomes hit Alec's wetpaper RES, forcing him to retreat or get targeted by a sleep staff and then proceed to die, and if he switches to Javelin, he has no chance of dodging their attacks, anyway.

Now, Pegasus Knight thing. Level 22 Alec with Wingclipper has 46 attack on them, before substracting defense, so that would be 36 damage per attack and since the bitches have their slims swords equipped, thay are actually doubling Alec. And then, why should Alec get the Wingclipper? I could give it to Noish, who has no pursuit, so he needs to deal as much damage as possible or Beowulf, who is at a lower level and needs the experience more.

Level 22 Azel with wind, on the other hand, doubles them for 21x2 damage, and he receives no damage thanks to attacking from a space away.

So, when Alec has wingclipper, Azel wins, when Alec doesn't have wingclipper, Azel crushes him.

Now, I don't know why Azel can't stay near Tiltyu and fight. Tiltyu has to fight, anyway, or your exp. rank suffers. In fact, Azel being there helps here to get easy kills, and therefore, indirectly help the exp. rank.


NOBODY on your team except Claude has enough RES not to get hit by the Sleep Staff, so that is a total moot point. You got Restore last chapter anyway, maybe use it? Not to mention you have Libro Aideen and Reserve Claude and who knows what on Lachesis and Levin. If Alec has his Javelin equipped he isn't getting targetted unless he's the only one in range, Wind Mages would rather go to Sigurd or whoever else has just his blade equipped.

I've never seen a Pegasus Knight with Pursuit, so they're not doubling Alec, welcome to FE4. They also start with their Slim Lances equipped and tend to keep it against swordusers such as Alec, so he is doubling and raping them. You could give it to Noish, but then neither Alec nor Noish are one-rounding pegs, which is bad. Beowulf has Pursuit, Charge, Continue AND access to A-level swords unlike Alec, he's capable of raping pegs without touching the Wing Clipper. Azel is never one-rounding them.

When Alec has Wing Clipper, he wins massivey offensively, and defensively (on player phase anyway) doesn't matter much when you got 32798 healers. If Azel wants to stay next to Tiltyu that's ok, but Tiltyu moves with a grand 5 move per turn, so you are raping your tactics rank not to mention your money resources from the villages by holding back just so Tiltyu can kill.

Quote:
 
Well, first of all, Azel gets da thunder sword and raeps an Axe Knight during your turn while getting WTA. If he's liek level 25 and gets targetted, the axe knight has 34 hit, which is already not reliable, but, oh wait, you are moving your units at their fullest to reach Byron, so he's getting +20% avoid from Sigurd and Lachesis.

In the same situation, Alec is dodging as well, but not killing as easily. A winrar is Azel.

Durability gap against meteor guys is not as slim as you think. Why? Because they will always target Alec instead of Azel, and Azel can equip a thunder tome and get +20 Avoid.

As for Wyverns, yeah, indeed, I made a mistake thar, Alec doesn't get critical'd. However, there is the fact that Alec may not be the Wingclipper user, and in that case, he loses offense horribly.

Defensively, they have 84 hit, level 25 Azel (Wind) has 45 Avd + 10 from Tiltyu + 20 from Sigurd and Lachesis and get 75 avoid. And since you are near the desert and your units were limited in movement, it's really easy to keep all the group together, so the +30% bonus is definitely likely Oh, and Azel doesn't have to stay back to get bonuses from Tiltyu. The lover bonus has a 3 tile radius range.


Yes, gogo Thunder Sword Azel with 7 Str and therefore 19 Attack vs the 47HP/11 Def Axeknights, please take 3 rounds to kill them. ~_~ In the same situation, Steel Sword Alec does 17x2 damage, killing better than Azel could. What is Azel doing with the Thunder Sword anyway when it could be used to give ANY of your other sword users ranged attacks? At least I had a good reason to give Alec the Wing Clipper.

Why is Alec targetted over Azel? You gave no really good reason. Anyway, Meteo from their 11 Skl has about 82 hit, and Alec has about 50 avoid to live of and survives two of them. You're never targetted by more than two. 404 Big Deal Not Found

If Alec doesn't have Wing Clipper there is also the chance that he's borrowing Hero Lance and doing 17x4 = 68 damage on their 58 HP. Fury is picking off them Meteor Mages anyway. Or he does two-rounds with good old Steel Lance, setting up a kill for whoever needs it.

Yeah, then try doing -10% for desert tiles for 65 avoid. Then maybe another -10% since Tiltyu couldn't keep up with the main group for getting Byron and then rushing to Lubeck, or perhaps your really really big group being together doesn't guarantee everyone gets +20% from Lachesis and Sigurd. All in all that would average about a 25% chance for Azel to take 40 damage in one schwoop, whereas Alec laughs with like 9 per blow.

Quote:
 
It is questionable if Alec truly wins durability as he has to take more counters. Azel's movement hurts him a bit, but he makes up that by attacking from away, so he has a 7 tile range before promotion, which is the same as other unmounted units like Ayra. Alec, however, while having higher movement, is never able to one round stuff like Azel does, so overall Azel w1ns offense, easily, more so in chapters 4 and 5, where he is promoted and has more Attack AND range than Alec (well, Alec can have as much range, but he has to equip a phail weapon).

If the rest of the army loves Alec because of his fighting abilities, then the love they feel for Azel is beyond words. Plus, Alec spends the night thinking of ways of being mean to Arden, Azel spends the nights having love-filled sex with Tiltyu.


If Alec ever refuses to take counters he can use a Javelin, which gives him a 10 attacking range, compounded by the common roads he makes use of. On short term thinking (i.e. attacking one enemy then closing your eyes), Azel seems better, but then Azel has to be shielded from all sides on enemy phase to not risk dying. This not only makes Azel a liability in your squad, but also allows Alec to damage more things on enemy phase with a smile on his face, overall contributing more oomph to your team. Chapter 4 and 5 have been and will be discussed plenty, but just for some liabilities of Azel: he is glued to 5-move Tiltyu, he loses offensively against pegs and Wind Mages and is hardly better defensively, he gets raped badly by Horseslayers whereas Alec is not.

The rest of your army is tired of taking hits for Azel all the fucking time, including Alec. If Alvis didn't do it then they would have killed him sooner or later. During the nights, if he's not hitting on Sylvia, he and the others plot on how to explain Azel he is no longer welcome to the army. Just as they had thought of a way to do, Azel's fucking half brother came in and Falaflamed them all, including Azel. Tiltyu survives and flees, then gets tortured to death and there's no Azel to help her. In fact, Azel isn't guaranteed to bang Tiltyu anyway since there's always Levin for longer Holsety abuse and Lex for Elite and Ambush, but I don't feel like spending more text on that.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Big Boss
Member Avatar

FEFFer
Quote:
 
You'd think people with Holy Blood would be competent enough to ride a horse, but apparently Azel doesn't do that until Alec showed him to do it for 19 levels.


Azel is good enough to not need a horse for the first 19 levels. Alec gets a horse and he is still not impressing anyone.

Quote:
 
Oh yes +20% avoid for Azel. Now he's only getting hit 62% of the time, so his chance of dying from two attacks is "only" 38%. Lex has even less evade than Azel, and dies in 4 hits from your average brigand. He has no time to protect Azel because he's got that village to save in the northwest corner. Sigurd's group is moving to Jungby last time I checked to not find Aideen, where Ethlin should also go because there's more wounds to heal. Azel is not getting leadership until everyone reunites at Evans, and even there his durability is absolute shit. Alec's offense is saved by the fact that he can attack a lot more often: you can put him in the range of three axefighters at once and live, kill one and move on, while some retard like Fin or Ardan can deal finishing blows.

Sorry, I'm not going to put someone on the bridge for -10% avoid and weaken things for Azel so we get an enormous queue and a lot of my units standing behind there doing nothing. Using everyone that period > using a shield for Azel + using Azel. Takes less time, too.


And why should Lex be the one who gets the northwest village? He dies in 4 hits, and he's getting attacked by a couple brigands on his way there, plus the one raiding the village. And Ethlin won't be near. It is better to have him work with Azel and then give him the village northwest of Jungby. And Azel is fully capable of reaching the main group in Jungby; the distance between his joining position and Jungby isn't that big.

Ok? Azel still does his job. You have everyone advance, with the mounted units at the front and Azel sniping from behind. At the end, the result is the same.

Quote:
 

The only person Azel can set up kills for against a Hand Axe dude is Lex. Alec is doing it for anyone who wants it of Cuan/Fin/Ethlin/Ardan/Noish, and he is also not getting 2HKOed at a very high probability at that point unlike Azel.


And why is that? Azel can set up kills for everyone else when he joins the main group.

Quote:
 
Azel is killing two enemies around where he comes, and then maybe two or three more at Evans bridge or something. Alec is weakening nonstop and can also finish off whatever he started by himself throughout the ENTIRE Prologue. If Alec just gains a point of Spd in Prologue, he ties Shark by borrowing Ethlin's Slim Sword. If he fails to beat him he can always try again later in the chapter. Azel is never ever going to beat him. Alec can also beat the AxeArmor of stage 5, wooh.

Alec could also beat Azel to getting to Aideen if he wanted to. Then it's basically crippling/killing one on player phase followed by getting raped horribly on enemy phase for Azel versus crippling one on player phase then crippling more on player phase without dying. You don't face the enemies in the space that is one tile wide, more likely by the time you're there Jamka is recruited (with Alec's help, likely) and most if not all enemies are dead. There's one or two that walk beside the 1-tile-wide space that Azel can get attacked by anyway. Again, Azel is 2HKOed at this point and Alec lives FOREVER.


Azel can also kill the boss at Evans, since he has shit RES and get good experience from that, making up for the amount of experience Alec got by weakening. Also, why should he borrow the Slim sword? Ethlin would have to seel it at half price and then buy it back at full price, which is bad (let's remember that her offense sucks so she's not getting a lot of money from the arena) and Alec still doesn't have 100% chance of winning that battle.

Yes, he could, but he isn't actually doing it because he is luring Ayra, so Azel gets more experience there. Also, you are not using Alec to lure Jamuka, even if Alec has gained a point of speed, defense and 2 HP, Jamuka doubles and kills. Not to mention Jamuka's other multi-hit skills have decent chances of activating and that there are other enemies there. Ayra is the one who's being used to lure Jamuka. I guess you could say that with Slim sword he doesn't get doubled, but I already explained my sentiments on taking that from Ethlin, and, once again, Alec is not 100% safe.

Enemies move really slow in the forests, so you still fight some of them at the 1 tile wide spaces, where Azel clearly wins.

Quote:
 

For Levin to save the Bargain Ring, you need to seize Heirhein castle before turn 11, and it's possible to do it in 10. Even if Azel moves completely unhindered, he will still not make it there. The Free Knights move towards your group, and ideally you just keep rushing forward to the next castle for the tactics rating. Azel will probably get there by the time everyone is traveling backwards. Azel's not fighting there.

24 damage per round means 48 damage in two rounds, so that sounds like two rounding to me. "Taking counters" only applies to the player phase, where Alec can hit and run to hide behind someone else or step back into a forest anyway. Azel has no such treatment on player phase, and cannot resort to sniping during enemy phase.


You are horribly underrating Azel's movement. The Free Knights have to spend like 4 turns moving to reach your group, plus the initial 11 turns, Azel is capable of joining in that battle.

Yes, he two round the weakest ones, but there are several armors with more than 48 HP, and against the ones that have axes, you are not using a lance. He is clearly not two-rounding as reliably as you make it out to be. Yes, taking counters only applies for player phase, but since he is receiving a counter his durability is now not that much better than Azel's. I don't know what you mean by "Azel has no such treatment on player phase". He can attack, and then arrange your formation so he doesn't die during enemy phase. In Alec's case, he had to run away. The result is apparently the same, both dealed damage and then search protection, except that Azel dealt more damage.

Quote:
 
Whatever, Alec could stand on the fucking road and take 5 Javelins for 8 damage a pop on his 44 HP (or Steel Sword hits for 6 damage so he'd get...8HKOed) without taking any chances at all. Then you can let some other units (Noish I guess) finish them off for EXP. Alec also has the option of OHKOing any of them on Player phase with the Horseslayer, btw.


Except that Alec's offense with the Javelin sucks, he can even miss sometimes when enemies are on forests, while Azel has better hit and attack. And no, I'm not giving Alec the Horseslayer over Finn, who is better and this is the last First Gen. chapter he has to gain experience.

Quote:
 

Silvail is a stone's throw away from the bushbush whereas the to-be-a-bridge to Orgahil is a far walk for Azel. Even taking the castle guards and Shagaal into account Azel probably won't be there in time. You should have people positioned there already for the Dragon Knight attack, who can also handle the pirates. Also, Alec fighting at Silvail vs Azel going on hike, which sounds more useful to you?


Azel can indeed reach Orgahill in time because people like Alec have suck offense and can't kill the guards at Silvail fast enough. Plus, you may take an extra turn or 2 than expected killing Shagall, because he can be gay and activate big shield. Plus, Sylvia can helpp Azel to move a bit faster. Then by the time Silvail is captured and there are no more enemies around there, things look like Alec moving vs Azel fighting at Orgahill. Which sounds more useful to you?

Quote:
 
I'll take Jamka or Midir for that anyday since they are also there for the Dragon Knights, and Midir can hit-and-run to make room for more. Blocking with one unit and sniping with Azel also makes it a pretty long wait over the bridge, whereas multiple units ramming through the ranks allows you to get to Tiltyu and co faster. Also, Azel gets 2HKOed by Pirzarl.


Yeah, you can use Jamuka and Midale. You can also use Jamuka, Midale and Azel and get better results. Also, you only do the bridge strategy for a couple turns, to soften the enemy group a little. If you just go all out, you take the risk of having some unit die. Also, why should you let Pizarl attack Azel?

Quote:
 
Allow me to explain. For Azel to kill something on player phase, then not die on enemy phase, he has to be among the group, he needs an enemy he can one-round, and then the rest of the group has to stand around him so he is not attacked on enemy phase, where he also is not gaining any EXP then (unless he gets sniped, which is all the worse for him). Alec is not reliant on that one player phase attack for his EXP, as he can gain EXP just by dodging or surviving on enemy phase. Alec can indeed beat swift swordsmen. Azel can die to the Falcoknight in round 4, if not earlier, and the Hero Axe Warrior of round 6 with 106 Hit Hero Axe isn't pretty for him either.


Okay, Azel kills something during the player phase and gets, say, 30 exp. Alec needs to weaken 3 enemies to get that much experience and receives more damage. Plus, you can let Azel get targetted by one enemy during the enemy phase and get another kill. Overall, the situation looks better for Azel.

Quote:
 
NOBODY on your team except Claude has enough RES not to get hit by the Sleep Staff, so that is a total moot point. You got Restore last chapter anyway, maybe use it? Not to mention you have Libro Aideen and Reserve Claude and who knows what on Lachesis and Levin. If Alec has his Javelin equipped he isn't getting targetted unless he's the only one in range, Wind Mages would rather go to Sigurd or whoever else has just his blade equipped.

I've never seen a Pegasus Knight with Pursuit, so they're not doubling Alec, welcome to FE4. They also start with their Slim Lances equipped and tend to keep it against swordusers such as Alec, so he is doubling and raping them. You could give it to Noish, but then neither Alec nor Noish are one-rounding pegs, which is bad. Beowulf has Pursuit, Charge, Continue AND access to A-level swords unlike Alec, he's capable of raping pegs without touching the Wing Clipper. Azel is never one-rounding them.

When Alec has Wing Clipper, he wins massivey offensively, and defensively (on player phase anyway) doesn't matter much when you got 32798 healers. If Azel wants to stay next to Tiltyu that's ok, but Tiltyu moves with a grand 5 move per turn, so you are raping your tactics rank not to mention your money resources from the villages by holding back just so Tiltyu can kill.


Yes, but Alec gets targeted over Azel because has lower RES. Forcing Edain to waste a turn using Restore<not forcing Edain to waste a turn using Restore. Plus, Edain has low movement so she may not be able to reach Alec and he will get targeted. Furthermore, moving Edain to the frontline, where Alec is, means she can get attacked later.

If the peggies equip a lance, then Alec gets less hit (and they have high avoid) so it's still not safe to assume he always one rounds. Plus, thanks to WTD he wouldn't be dodging.

Tiltyu has the lowest movement on the team, so you should give her the Leg ring so she can move fast and get kills. If you worry too much about your Tactics rank, you may end up raping experience.


Quote:
 
Yes, gogo Thunder Sword Azel with 7 Str and therefore 19 Attack vs the 47HP/11 Def Axeknights, please take 3 rounds to kill them. ~_~ In the same situation, Steel Sword Alec does 17x2 damage, killing better than Azel could. What is Azel doing with the Thunder Sword anyway when it could be used to give ANY of your other sword users ranged attacks? At least I had a good reason to give Alec the Wing Clipper.

Why is Alec targetted over Azel? You gave no really good reason. Anyway, Meteo from their 11 Skl has about 82 hit, and Alec has about 50 avoid to live of and survives two of them. You're never targetted by more than two. 404 Big Deal Not Found

If Alec doesn't have Wing Clipper there is also the chance that he's borrowing Hero Lance and doing 17x4 = 68 damage on their 58 HP. Fury is picking off them Meteor Mages anyway. Or he does two-rounds with good old Steel Lance, setting up a kill for whoever needs it.

Yeah, then try doing -10% for desert tiles for 65 avoid. Then maybe another -10% since Tiltyu couldn't keep up with the main group for getting Byron and then rushing to Lubeck, or perhaps your really really big group being together doesn't guarantee everyone gets +20% from Lachesis and Sigurd. All in all that would average about a 25% chance for Azel to take 40 damage in one schwoop, whereas Alec laughs with like 9 per blow.


During your turn, Azel rapes one of them with Elfire/Ranged thunder sword, and during the enemy's phase he has the thunder sword and doesn't get hit. In 1 turn, he kills 1 enemy and weakens 1. Alec just kills 1. Azel did better.

I didn't give a good reason? Azel has higher RES and can equip a thunder tome to get more evade. That wasn't good enough

Now Alec is getting the Hero lance? No thx. I'd rather have Finn keep it or have Fury pass it dow to Fee and get to use it since chapter 6. Alec is not passing it down. It's a waste giving it to him.

Already explained about Tiltyu. She gets the Leg ring to make things easier on your experience rank (which is the hardest rank) so she has high mobility and can keep up with the likes of Azel, Lachesis and Sigurd.

Quote:
 
The rest of your army is tired of taking hits for Azel all the fucking time, including Alec. If Alvis didn't do it then they would have killed him sooner or later. During the nights, if he's not hitting on Sylvia, he and the others plot on how to explain Azel he is no longer welcome to the army. Just as they had thought of a way to do, Azel's fucking half brother came in and Falaflamed them all, including Azel. Tiltyu survives and flees, then gets tortured to death and there's no Azel to help her. In fact, Azel isn't guaranteed to bang Tiltyu anyway since there's always Levin for longer Holsety abuse and Lex for Elite and Ambush, but I don't feel like spending more text on that.


I pity Alec, who can only get a slut like Sylvia. If Azel doesn't get Tiltyu, he can get Lachesis, and his sn will be a decent magic sword user, while his daughter will be a better healer, or he can get Fury, who is pretty hot.

Also, Azel probablu put more resistance against Velthomer's Rotten Ritter. Alec died against the Meteors of the regular mages, since his RES sucked, while Azel could have died against a Holy weapon.

Alec is clearly not better than Azel. The turbant only worked for Hardain. Sorry.
Posted Image
^^by comatose from NationalSigLeague^^

Kratos/Jeigan
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Mekkah

FEFFer
Quote:
 
Azel is good enough to not need a horse for the first 19 levels. Alec gets a horse and he is still not impressing anyone.


Dude, no. Actual gameplay wise, a horse is CRUCIAL in FE4 or you get left behind in the rush for villages, tactics and other objectives. Fun-wise (which this paragraph was originally intended for), the horse + turbant combo impresses everyone, even those who have a horse already.

Quote:
 
And why should Lex be the one who gets the northwest village? He dies in 4 hits, and he's getting attacked by a couple brigands on his way there, plus the one raiding the village. And Ethlin won't be near. It is better to have him work with Azel and then give him the village northwest of Jungby. And Azel is fully capable of reaching the main group in Jungby; the distance between his joining position and Jungby isn't that big.

Ok? Azel still does his job. You have everyone advance, with the mounted units at the front and Azel sniping from behind. At the end, the result is the same.


Lex gets there before anyone else does. If you play your cards right he only needs to get attacked once by the Hand Axe Brigand before he starts attacking the mountain thief. This mountain thief also gets to attack only once, because he's busy burning houses to attack on enemy phase. He'll be getting to Ethlin sooner than Azel is, and there's also two churches nearby. For Azel to get to Jungby, it takes 6 turns of completely unhindered movement if he takes the shortest way, which is right through a few brigands near there as well which he'll have to maneuver around or something. Your other group can move after attacking and has 6 people and doesn't have to heal in churches. They are so getting there a lot earlier.

If all goes well Azel attacks once or twice near Evans, and he's not even one-rounding things anymore since these are L5 Brigands with 40HP/0RES, Azel needs 2 extra points of Mag for that (he comes with 18 Atk). He's in the same weaken-or-finish boat as Alec here except he can't frontline, and there's more bows and Hand Axes here too.

Quote:
 
And why is that? Azel can set up kills for everyone else when he joins the main group.


He can set up kills for Lex when he joins, and then not any until everyone's at Evans, at which point everyone except Sigurd is "setting up kills" on most enemies. Except Azel is in more danger than Alec because of more Hand Axes, bows and he can't afford to be exposed on enemy phase.

Quote:
 
Azel can also kill the boss at Evans, since he has shit RES and get good experience from that, making up for the amount of experience Alec got by weakening. Also, why should he borrow the Slim sword? Ethlin would have to seel it at half price and then buy it back at full price, which is bad (let's remember that her offense sucks so she's not getting a lot of money from the arena) and Alec still doesn't have 100% chance of winning that battle.

Yes, he could, but he isn't actually doing it because he is luring Ayra, so Azel gets more experience there. Also, you are not using Alec to lure Jamuka, even if Alec has gained a point of speed, defense and 2 HP, Jamuka doubles and kills. Not to mention Jamuka's other multi-hit skills have decent chances of activating and that there are other enemies there. Ayra is the one who's being used to lure Jamuka. I guess you could say that with Slim sword he doesn't get doubled, but I already explained my sentiments on taking that from Ethlin, and, once again, Alec is not 100% safe.

Enemies move really slow in the forests, so you still fight some of them at the 1 tile wide spaces, where Azel clearly wins.


Anyone can kill the boss at Evans, Azel doesn't have a monopoly on him or anything. If Azel is weakened he dies from Hand Axe so it may not be the safest choice. It's not like killing one boss makes up for Alec fighting much more enemies every turn, and fighting for longer, since there's no bonus for killing a promoted enemy or a boss in this game, just the higher the level, the more EXP. I can't see why Alec cannot borrow Ethlin's Slim Sword. She comes with 4000G, she gets some money after Prologue for keeping Jungby intact, she gets at least 2500G from the arena, she can get villages and Cuan can give her money since his arena results are pretty good. The FULL Slim Sword costs 3000G, and it likely costs less since Ethlin also countered a few times in Prologue. Over something as minimal as this, there is no money problem in this game.

Who says he's luring Ayra? You. I say he could lure Ayra, or he could beat Azel to fighting Brigands, or do it together since Azel needs protection (he still gets 2HKOed). Alec can do two things, Azel can do one, and Alec outperforms Azel at what he does there too. You don't even need Alec per se to lure Ayra since you can stand JUST out of her range, it's just handy. You can just use Fin for it since he doesn't need much EXP outside of the arena and an occasional kill. Jamka has 25 Atk, L7 Alec lives through two hits btw with 1HP left, and the other enemies have 27% hit on him if they're even there (Jamka moves faster). Again it's just something Alec could do sometimes that Azel never ever does.

I've seriously never ever had anyone other than the two bordering Brigands alive when I arrived at the passage. I know personal experience is frowned upon but no one of your group moves faster than 3 spaces (and that's just Cuan and Sigurd) and these brigands start almost IN the passage.

Quote:
 
You are horribly underrating Azel's movement. The Free Knights have to spend like 4 turns moving to reach your group, plus the initial 11 turns, Azel is capable of joining in that battle.

Yes, he two round the weakest ones, but there are several armors with more than 48 HP, and against the ones that have axes, you are not using a lance. He is clearly not two-rounding as reliably as you make it out to be. Yes, taking counters only applies for player phase, but since he is receiving a counter his durability is now not that much better than Azel's. I don't know what you mean by "Azel has no such treatment on player phase". He can attack, and then arrange your formation so he doesn't die during enemy phase. In Alec's case, he had to run away. The result is apparently the same, both dealed damage and then search protection, except that Azel dealt more damage.


It seems some visual aid is in order!

Here is the map without enemies

Posted Image
And this is how it's gonna work.

1 = where Azel stands on turn 1, provided there's nobody there already, which is possible because not everyone can move their maximum range yet
2 = this is where Azel stands on turn 11, when Heirhein is seized, keeping this pace of 6-7 movement per turn on the road
3 = this is where your mounted groups, including Sigurd and Alec and Ethlin and stuff are hanging out around that time
4 = this is where the Free Knights start
5 = this is where you can engage them easily, but you can also move along a little further and trigger the Amphony guards

The Free Knights don't spend 4 full turns to reach your group if you rush, which you should. There's also the chance that you're only taking 10 turns for Heirhein, which is only logical because that saves you some gold from the villages.

About Armors, let's clear up the fact first that the VAST majority of armors are from Heirhein and Amphony. Azel is never fighting Philip's Heirhein army, we estabilished that. He might be there for one turn of Amphony. Maybe he fights the one lonely Armor from McKeily (with Javelin!), but there's ballistae there who will target Azel. Maybe he makes it to Augusty with a lot more Javelin Armors and 3 ballistae, but that is still a horrible situation to be in. Alec can hit, and then run out of the range of the rest of the Armor groups, and he doesn't require 4 units around him like Azel or a complete wall in front of him to survive. Plus he doesn't die as quickly to ballistae. The offensive end result is that Azel did more damage in one turn, the defensive result is that Azel is a defensive liability whereas Alec is not. And that Alec is usually :there: and Azel is not.

Quote:
 
Except that Alec's offense with the Javelin sucks, he can even miss sometimes when enemies are on forests, while Azel has better hit and attack. And no, I'm not giving Alec the Horseslayer over Finn, who is better and this is the last First Gen. chapter he has to gain experience.


Ohno, watch out for the dangerous Crossknights with their -16 evade with a Javelin, or -6 if they attack with Steel Sword when Alec has a lance. Javelin Alec has 38.4 + 60 = 98.4 hit. If he stands on the road as I propsed, then so will the enemies (unless you put him in a dumb position) and they will lose another 10 evade. Sigurd and Lachesis are also there according to you. Worst case scenario is that an enemy is on a forest when Alec is not getting Sigurd/Lachesis bonuses, in which case he still only misses like one out of ten times.

Quote:
 
Azel can indeed reach Orgahill in time because people like Alec have suck offense and can't kill the guards at Silvail fast enough. Plus, you may take an extra turn or 2 than expected killing Shagall, because he can be gay and activate big shield. Plus, Sylvia can helpp Azel to move a bit faster. Then by the time Silvail is captured and there are no more enemies around there, things look like Alec moving vs Azel fighting at Orgahill. Which sounds more useful to you?


There is a grand total of 10 castle guards, and besides "people with suck offense" (who all need only 2 rounds anyway) you have the Iron Cutter, you have Holyn's Moonlight Hit, Ayra's Meteor Sword, Sigurd's general hax, Levin, the Thunder Sword, the Light Sword...these guys hardly take any time at all. Sylvia can also help 4 units of your group heal/attack again instead of helping just Azel, that does sound more useful to me. Also helps taking down Shagaal who only has a 20% chance of negating one attack anyway. It takes Alec only 4-5 turns with some Sylvia help to get back to Madino/Orgahil since he's promoted and has 9 move, Azel certainly takes longer, so Azel is useless for longer.

Quote:
 
Yeah, you can use Jamuka and Midale. You can also use Jamuka, Midale and Azel and get better results. Also, you only do the bridge strategy for a couple turns, to soften the enemy group a little. If you just go all out, you take the risk of having some unit die. Also, why should you let Pizarl attack Azel?


Jamka can't hit and run like Azel, so both can't snipe unless you want to put one of them in front of the line, which just gets you stuck. Or you could put Azel in front, and if he's one rounding shit then Pizarl will come to him quickly. Not to mention he has -10% avoid on the bridge.

Quote:
 
Okay, Azel kills something during the player phase and gets, say, 30 exp. Alec needs to weaken 3 enemies to get that much experience and receives more damage. Plus, you can let Azel get targetted by one enemy during the enemy phase and get another kill. Overall, the situation looks better for Azel.


Yeah, let's ignore the fact that Azel cannot always reach an enemy on player phase and cannot always one-round every single enemy out there. Alec is, during most of the player phases of Prol/Ch1 not receiving damage at all because he avoids axes easily with forests and Sigurd and stuff. Alec can weaken one enemy on player phase for 10EXP and then only needs 2 on enemy phase to compensate, and then he can only gain more if he gets attacked more or finishes off something. If you can get Azel targetted by just one enemy and no one else then you'd have to gear your entire setup around Azel or something, because enemies move in groups and if one enemy can reach Azel, then so can like 3-4 others most of the time.

Quote:
 
Yes, but Alec gets targeted over Azel because has lower RES. Forcing Edain to waste a turn using Restore<not forcing Edain to waste a turn using Restore. Plus, Edain has low movement so she may not be able to reach Alec and he will get targeted. Furthermore, moving Edain to the frontline, where Alec is, means she can get attacked later.

If the peggies equip a lance, then Alec gets less hit (and they have high avoid) so it's still not safe to assume he always one rounds. Plus, thanks to WTD he wouldn't be dodging.

Tiltyu has the lowest movement on the team, so you should give her the Leg ring so she can move fast and get kills. If you worry too much about your Tactics rank, you may end up raping experience.


Sleep Staff has failsafe accuracy on anything with lower RES than the caster's MAG. Azel and Alec are equally likely to get targetted and equally likely to get hit. The best defense against the sleep staff is hurting one of the Wind Mages so the boss uses Libro instead. Aideen can always Restore your units anyway without being in danger, it has 10 range in this game.

L24 Alec has 41.4 (Skl) + 70 (Clipper Hit) - 20 (WTD) - 22 (Peg Evd) = 114.4 - 42 = 74.4 hit = 55% chance of hitting both and therefore one rounding, which > Azel's never one rounding. Or 70% with Sigurd or Lachesis in there. Or 88% with both.

Tiltyu comes with 5000G, she needs 15000G more to be able to buy the Leg Ring. Azel can't give her money since they're not lovers yet. She gets 8000G from arena's and from keeping castles in Ch3 intact maybe, but she'll need a Dew donation or something to buy the Leg Ring. Plus other people want the Leg Ring: Sylvia for dancing much more effectively, Claude/Aideen for more healing range, Fury for getting to villages more quickly, Sigurd for quicker seizing...also, Tiltyu gets raped by Wind Mages and Pegs pretty horribly. If you worry too much about EXP, you might rape tactics or survival or combat.

Quote:
 
During your turn, Azel rapes one of them with Elfire/Ranged thunder sword, and during the enemy's phase he has the thunder sword and doesn't get hit. In 1 turn, he kills 1 enemy and weakens 1. Alec just kills 1. Azel did better.

I didn't give a good reason? Azel has higher RES and can equip a thunder tome to get more evade. That wasn't good enough

Now Alec is getting the Hero lance? No thx. I'd rather have Finn keep it or have Fury pass it dow to Fee and get to use it since chapter 6. Alec is not passing it down. It's a waste giving it to him.

Already explained about Tiltyu. She gets the Leg ring to make things easier on your experience rank (which is the hardest rank) so she has high mobility and can keep up with the likes of Azel, Lachesis and Sigurd.


I see you neglected to give a reason why Azel gets the Thunder Sword when other people want it. So when Azel doesn't have the Thunder Sword he loses 20 Evade that Alec has guaranteed and keeps on killing to make sure nobody else who needs kills gets them, while Alec just keeps on weakening. Azel is at the risk of dying and stealing kills, Alec weakens without dying. Alec did better.

You said "they target Alec first AND Azel can equip a Thunder tome" but ok, Azel lives against Meteor and so does Alec still.

Fin keeping it is damp if he's paired with Lachesis since he'll lose it, and if he's not paired with Lachesis I'd still rather put it on Fury so I have it for longer. Fin only needs to weaken things for Leaf in Ch7 anyway, he gets plenty of EXP out of the arena. Fury passing it down is entirely possible since Alec can just sell it later. Used weapons don't cost much to swap. I like how you made this point about the Hero Lance, yet gave Azel the Thunder Sword which he is so not passing down if you assume he's with Tiltyu.

Tiltyu might need to hand in the Leg Ring at this point if she even had it (countered earlier) since I want to give it to Sigurd -> Celice so he can seize quickly before he promotes.

Quote:
 
I pity Alec, who can only get a slut like Sylvia. If Azel doesn't get Tiltyu, he can get Lachesis, and his sn will be a decent magic sword user, while his daughter will be a better healer, or he can get Fury, who is pretty hot.

Also, Azel probablu put more resistance against Velthomer's Rotten Ritter. Alec died against the Meteors of the regular mages, since his RES sucked, while Azel could have died against a Holy weapon.

Alec is clearly not better than Azel. The turbant only worked for Hardain. Sorry.


Sylvia is so not a slut. Alec bangs anyone he wants, that's why he's always smiling. Azel is a flasher, you should've noticed that when he opened his cape for the first time against Generic Brigand #1417. Azel/Lachesis is an awful pairing that deprives the kids of really good Str. Nanna heals plenty with Relive (which she comes with) and doesn't even break 17 endgame Mag. The only good magic swords are Wind and Thunder which they don't have a monopoly on, other swordies want range too, especially Patty. Fury is "pretty hot" but never wants Azel over Claude - Volcannon/Relive Sety <<< Elfire/Elwhatever/Lightning/Reserve Sety with better stats and B level staff Fee.

Everyone handed in their weapons or Alvis would have died to the Tyrfing. Nobody could put any resistance. Speaking of resistance, Azel has only 4 more than Alec. Pretty sure nobody cares.

The TURBANT is what prompted the Firemages to stop attacking Alec and let him escape. Azel died at the hands of his own brother when he tried to flash everyone with his homocape. Turbants rule. Alec rules. Alec wins.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
+Ema Skye
Member Avatar
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
Advisor
This was good.

Voting time.
Posted Image

MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Debates · Next Topic »
Locked Topic


Affiliates
Fire Emblem Planet Global Trade Station Plus Emblem of the Zodiac Photobucket Image Hosting Fire Emblem Spritez Serenes Forest
Topsites
Final Fantasy Skies Topsites
Fire Emblem Fusion Skin, © Cubic and SwordsAreShiney.