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| A tier list up for discussion; take #23782 at giving life to this board | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 22 2007, 04:43 PM (7,888 Views) | |
| Mekkah | Oct 22 2007, 04:43 PM Post #1 |
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NOTE: Characters are not in any order within tiers. It's impossible to do that properly, since there's a lot of disagreement on them anyway, not to mention there's a lot of "triangle comparisons" where A beats B, B beats C and C beats A anyway, in which case it just doesn't work out. Excluded Athos Hector Karla Legault Matthew Nils Ninian Renault God Guy Kent Lowen Marcus Raven Sain High Eliwood Erk Geitz Harken Oswin Pent Priscilla Serra Mid Canas Dart Dorcas Fiora Florina Hawkeye Isadora Lucius Rebecca Low Bartre Farina Heath Jaffar Karel Louise Lyn Nino Rath Vaida Wallace Wil Explaining some upsets: Excluded Tier is for people who - come so late they don't matter - are Hector - cannot be compared to other units And by the last one, I mean Legault, Matthew, Nils and Ninian. S-Ranking funds rests on Matthew's shoulders alone - that makes him the most essential unit in the game hands down. Even compared to Hector, who you could theoretically rescue and drop on the gate/throne and still S-rank, without Matthew you could never S-rank HHM. Legault is less "amazing" in that sense, but still you cannot really put a finger on how useful thieving is compared to battling, especially when Matthew is capped and you want a thief that doesn't throw EXP in the bin. I'm not entirely sure of Legault here though. Nils and Ninian basically let other units move again which again nobody else can do, yet is a very treasured ability. They have uber avoid even without supports, and while they cannot counterattack they can let another unit move again on player phase anyway to compensate for it every time, and their slip-ups should happen rarely. Again, nobody can really compare to them. Nils joins late anyway so he deserves to be here. I put all Paladins except Isadora in God because they are the best class in the game. Nothing, and I mean nothing else has 8 move AND 3 weapons. All of them are good units in their own right, Marcus in a different way than the other three. They all have good supports and good stats too. Guy is in God because his offense with Killing Edge is unmatched. I think Priscilla and Serra should always be in the same tier, if Serra is not higher. There's a good chance you want 19xx and a chance you are even abusing even further, which means Serra gets such a huge level lead on anyone else it's not funny. Or even normally she promotes pretty quickly. Her supports are pretty slow but are with good units, and unlike Priscilla she can dodge and take more than 1 hit when she joins. And she has a defensive affinity unlike Priscilla. Which one is better is up to debate, I personally prefer Serra and if anyone should be moved to God I think it's her. Mid Tier should have little surprises...they're kinda all "units that would be good if it weren't for <x>". Rebecca has awesome supports and endgame stats but horrid earlygame performance, Lucius has good supports and offense but horrid defense and avoid, Dart is awesome in every regard except for promotion cost, Isadora is a Paladin but not a very good one stat-wise, etc. Lyn is so awful, I don't get why I ever liked her.  Lucius-like defense but with more Luk in trade for hardly any Def from supports, awful affinity that gives no evade, no ranged attacks until her promotion, which gets in the way of Eliwood's already late promotion or is even later and is also twice as costly as that of a normal unit. She's required training to at least L10 to get Geitz and she's on a few maps and has Mani Katti, but that's doesn't offset all above imo.The only unit I'd move out of her is Louise because of her guaranteed auto-A with Pent and just being a decent prepromote and all, but then you could also say the same about Jaffar and Vaida and stuff. It's really mostly her joining time and class that hurts. What do you guys think? Again, units aren't in any particular order within tiers. |
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| Reikken | Oct 22 2007, 05:44 PM Post #2 |
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HHM Raven < the Cavaliers? Is 2 mov really so good that its better enough than better stats to make him down a tier? |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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| +Ema Skye | Oct 22 2007, 09:17 PM Post #3 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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You should include every unit. |
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| Mekkah | Oct 23 2007, 04:04 AM Post #4 |
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2 mov, lances before and after promotion and rescuing possibilities, and level leads obviously.
I could include the thieves, dancers and Hector in God and Renault and Karla in Low, but the former would rock the hell out of every God tier there whereas the latter would just lose to everyone except things like Wallace and Karel and each other. |
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| Reikken | Oct 23 2007, 08:24 AM Post #5 |
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level lead is assumed. Raven still has better stats. Rescuing? That's none too useful. Raven having twice as much move in ch 23 > that. Javelins before promotion may help sometimes. Also, limited Knight Crests. Only some can promote on time. 2 mov and Javelins before promo vs offense, some exp rank, and no promotion issues I'm certainly not seeing any kind of gap. |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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| Mekkah | Oct 23 2007, 09:39 AM Post #6 |
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You forget that Cavaliers can have WTA over sword users before promotion, which closes the offense gap a bit there. Then after promotion Reaver needs Swordreaver/Swordslayer to do that, which Cavaliers can use as well. Either one of Kent/Sain can also do the Lynwhore prepromote Marcus-with-good-growths thing for all it's worth to eliminate the Knight Crest problem. Nonetheless, might as well move Raven up I suppose. |
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| Reikken | Oct 23 2007, 11:12 AM Post #7 |
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No, I just put WTA and such in with stats.
In Kent's case, it's more like Marcus-with-good-speed-and-less-str It also hurts exp rank as well |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Oct 23 2007, 02:47 PM Post #8 |
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Rebeecca to High please. Great stats after Supports (and supports good people). Class disadvantage keeps her out of Top, but High for sure. |
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| +Ema Skye | Oct 23 2007, 06:50 PM Post #9 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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I don't think Rebecca should be high tier. |
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Oct 23 2007, 07:26 PM Post #10 |
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Reasons? 91% chance to Crit with Killer Bow, h4x AS, decent Atk, and best Avo in the game disagree with you. That's lategame, of course, but she's good midgame, too. |
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| Mekkah | Oct 24 2007, 04:10 AM Post #11 |
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Depends on how much levels you skip with Kent. Not about to run numbers now but Kent has a guaranteed +3 Atk from Sain and can get +2 from Fiora or lolLyn or even +1 from Heath I guess. All of Marcus' good partners want someone else, leaving him to wait for C Harken for 0.5 Atk or something.
Rebecca seems fine in middle. She's held back by being crap earlygame and never being able to truly frontline due to lack of counterattack. She's fine :everywhere else:, it's just that these two things are rather crucial imo. |
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Oct 24 2007, 05:56 AM Post #12 |
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Not really. Early on, she's required, and being your only decent 2-Range option = w1n. She's also pretty good against the earlygame Peg Knights. Then once she levels up a few times, she's not a bad unit at all. Pretty decent. Then during midgame and lategame she becomes h4x. Spd, Crit, Avo, Atk are all very high. Best unit if she weren't a Sniper.
She can counterattack Magic if you position yourself right, and Hand Axes and Javelins. Rebecca in a chapter like CoD = lol. In fact, she's the single best unit for lategame Valkyries. Highest Avo.
Better than fine. Amazing. Arguably better than Guy. Guy lacks 2 Range, Rebecca lacks 1. Rebecca's disadvantage is greater, but she can reach more enemies and has more Avo for h4x; you can also force enemies to attack you in 2 Range if they have a 1-2 Range weapon, but you can't force a 1-2 Range enemy to attack you in 1 Range. Both have comparable chances to Crit once on a double (91% to 96% or so), so that's negligible. And she can also outrange stuff like Heroes that normal units that don't have constant 1-2 Range or 2-Range can't do. So she gets them on Player Phase; others wait til Enemy Phase. High for sure. Being neutral/bad earlygame + inability to counterattack melee vs. awesome midgame + h4x lategame + h4x Supports. |
| this is the best Brawl match ever....EVER | |
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| +Ema Skye | Oct 24 2007, 12:31 PM Post #13 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Needz moar actually existing on enemy phase and less suckysucky in earlygame. |
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| Mekkah | Oct 24 2007, 01:24 PM Post #14 |
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Being required early on isn't really a point in Rebecca's favor imo. If she wasn't required it would be a lot easier to go through chapters 12/13/13x since you wouldn't have to shield her. She's only decent against Peg knights on enemy phase, once. Lowen, Bartre and Hector manhandle Peg knights within one turn thanks to counterattacking, Rebecca cannot OHKO them. Dorcas can even OHKO the fuckers sometimes. Yeah, you can position her so that 1-2 rangers let her counterattack. The problem is, that requires absolutely no other 1-2 or 1 range enemies at that point or Rebecca will leave them alive and create a clog point or something. I could use something like Javelin/Hand Axe Kent and he :would: be countering. Plus against all the 1-range enemies in the game she still sucks on enemy phase. I like Rebecca but she's perfect in Mid. Her pro's are great, her cons are great as well, but neither side is great enough to warrant her in higher or lower. |
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Oct 24 2007, 02:44 PM Post #15 |
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Did you not read the post? Best Avo in game = she's the best unit in the game defensively when it comes to Enemy Phase. Tank ftw.
No, it just means that it'd be _stupid_ not to use her then.
The point was that Rebecca doesn't suck. She does have uses. And being your only decent 2-ranger early on >>> No, I'm not trying to argue that Rebecca is h4x earlygame. She's better than suck, that's for sure.
Her pros >>> her cons. Meh start + counterattack issues for cons. H4x stats midgame and lategame, h4x Supports, outranging enemies on Player for pros. The latter quite easily win out; she has quite possibly the best stats of any unit in the game once Supported. Second-highest Crit, highest Avo, h4x Spd, decent Atk = lol, what else do you need? |
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