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| FE5 tier list; Suggestions? | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 6 2007, 12:56 PM (1,951 Views) | |
| Beta-Knight | Nov 6 2007, 12:56 PM Post #1 |
whatever
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*Is reeeeeeeeally hoping for an FE5 debate contest* This is, like, my third try with it. I think I've got it pretty good this time, but I thought I'd see what pplz who can actually debate think. I know there are still prolly a bunch of flaws I'm not seeing. Top Tier Othin Finn Fergus Halvan Mareeta Shiva Rifis Parn Karin Saphy High Tier Nanna Machua Asvel Dean Dalshien Carrion Olwen Homer Lara Leaf Trewd Brighton Kein Alva Salem Upper mid tier Hicks Delmud Sarah Tina Fred Roberto Sety Linoan Galzus Amalda Xavier Lower mid tier Dagda Tanya Glade Misha Ralph Eyvel Eda Sleuf Low Tier Eyrios Selphina Shannam Connomore Miranda Cyas Marty Ronan Whatcha think? Objections? Constructive critisism? Flaming? |
Formerly Dark Beta, Falaflame. Beta-Kraid or just Beta on other forums
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| Mekkah | Nov 6 2007, 04:28 PM Post #2 |
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Take this with a grain of salt as I haven't beaten the game yet but I think Eyvel is pretty goddamn bad as she hinders more than she helps early on. Every time she kills something she's taking away from Leaf/Halvan/Othin's EXP pool. If you are assuming the goal of the game is to get an SSS-rank then you have a very tight turn amount, which makes Saphy and her early access to Warp pretty much a must-use. Not too sure what I think of Karin in top. From the top of my head, I suppose it's Pro's: - Quick village saver - Support with Felgus - Quick avoid capping - Sety scroll - Training her helps for when she's forced into play Cons: - Can't use main weapon indoors - Weak Str - Arrow/other flier problems - Low Bld, so her move is halved everytime she captures/rescues |
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| Beta-Knight | Nov 8 2007, 09:43 AM Post #3 |
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whatever
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What saves Eyvel from being bottom tier is that it's impossible to save Nanna in chapter five without her, which means it's impossible to SSS the game without her. She also has a leadership star, two movement stars, makes it possible to kill the earlygame bosses without taking 45763495623495634789 turns, and has stats decent enough to hold her own somewhat durring lategame. Yeah, I suppose I could move Saphy up. And the whole ongoing Rhys debate on the POR board has made me realize another one of her pros- she gets her exp without harming the team. Karin definitely deserves to be that high, IMO. As the only flier for the first half of the game, and the best one throughout the game, she just has too many uses. If you want to SSS the game, you're gonna be needing her at soooooo many points. |
Formerly Dark Beta, Falaflame. Beta-Kraid or just Beta on other forums
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| Mekkah | Nov 8 2007, 10:02 AM Post #4 |
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Brighton > Hicks I can understand, but Brighton > lots of random characters > Hicks? It's Wrath and Machua support versus better stats, surely that is not worth 10 slots inbetween, filled by almost incomparable units? Kinda same deal with Eyrios vs Olwen - this time (kinda broken) Prf weapons versus stats. Though I believe you have to not recruit or kill Olwen to get Eyrios anyway so meh. I do believe you're allowed to miss out on one character, but that makes your turns more limited. I'd likely pick Xavier for that I guess. |
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| +Ema Skye | Nov 8 2007, 10:14 AM Post #5 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Othin is the best unit, imo. High durability + insane offense + supports + prf weapon. Eyvel should be higher. She makes earlygame actually possible. |
 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Big Boss | Nov 9 2007, 04:27 PM Post #6 |
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Nah, Dean is better from the moment he joins. Movement stars + Dragon lance + better defense + better offense + not needing a hero crest + more HP and thus not fatigued as easily + good sword level thus not sucking indoors. I'd say move Karin down a tier. Rifis up to top please. Thieves are godly, and he makes your life easier during the chapters you are escaping from Manster. Not sure if Trewd should be that high, but I haven't used him, so I don't really know. I think Dean (for reasons already mentioned) and Homer (h4x stats, Elite) are fully capable of moving up to high. I think Eyvel is fine where she is. |
 ^^by comatose from NationalSigLeague^^ Kratos/Jeigan | |
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| +Bryars | Nov 9 2007, 05:36 PM Post #7 |
Blood Weapons
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Let's see... Top complaints: Karin and Pahn are way overrated. As is Asvel. High complaints: Mareeta should be top. Nanna should be lower. Carrion should be top. Leaf should be lower. Upper Mid complaints: Homer should be higher. Olwen should be higher. Roberto should be higher. Sety, Galzus, and Sarah should be higher. Lower mid complaints: Miranda should be higher, but thats just because I like her wrath skill. Low Tier: Sleuf should be higher; I'm surprised he's this low. I'll defend my points when someone objects. 
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Look up into the stars and you're gone This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time | |
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| Beta-Knight | Nov 10 2007, 06:33 PM Post #8 |
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whatever
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@Mekkah: Yeah, I suppose I put Hicks a bit too low. Still, his stat advantage isn't really that much, since Brighton will have a slight level lead. Olwen>>>>>>>>>Eyrios, though, mainly because she actually exists for so much longer(in the B route especially). You miss out on getting her, and you miss out on a character that's gonna start out fairly powerful and help out a pretty good amount, and you're gonna have to wait a looooooong time for your replacement. Also, I'm pretty sure you can't miss any characters at all. The minimum is 47, correct? There are 52 characters in the game, and since there will be 5 Harken/Karel-esque characters that you won't be able to get...yep, that's 47. @Inui: Okey dokey about the Eyvel thing. I still think Finn>Othin, though. Nice level lead, MUCH better personal weapon(not that the Pugi doesn't raep, tho) which is perfect for capturing, better supports, and a combo of the +10 Lck and Prayer makes him dodgey enough to make up for the durability advantage. Still, Wrath>>>>>Prayer...tough choice. If you have any other points against this, though, feel free to own me with them. @Jeigan: Yeah, I think the three of them could be moved up, sure. I'd still object to Karin being moved down, though. First of all, there's no doubt in my mind at all that Karin should be >Dean on the list. Being godly for the entire game>>>Being slightly more godly for one half of the game, and not existing durring the other half. Other than that, she just has too many uses. She helps out a ton with the Mages in 4x and 5, makes visiting the villages in 6, 7, 10, etc a breeze, makes recruiting Shiva actually possible, and saves Warp Staff uses at a bunch of points. Even once you DO get Dean, there are still some things that she can do that he can't. Recruiting Sarah in the A route, for example. Dean gets massacred by the Dark Bishop boss's Fenrir. With Karen's high Mag, she doesn't. Oh, and did I mention that one of the places that she saves Warp uses is in the getting the Rescue Staff? Yep, the same Rescue staff that makes getting DEAN's Dragon Lance possible without being more trouble than it's worth? You don't have the Rescue Staff, and Dean gets massacred by Paulus and the Balistae the second he gets warped down there. Karin's sword level is fine. Her base sword level is actually higher than her base lance level, and she's stuck to swords until chapter 6. Existing for twice as long and thus being twice as helpful + better defense against magic, which is something pretty rare in a unit + better supports(Eda will prolly never be fielded, and Linoan isn't likely to ever be anywhere near him. Fergus and Karin, on the other hand, will make a great team) + being needed to recruit Shiva and thus to SSS the game + being needed to get his primary advantage while still SSSing the game + much better Avo throughout the game, which makes up for his Def/HP advantage = better. What's wrong with Trewd? He's no Shiva or Mareeta, but he's stats are still plenty great. His nice bases make up for his slight underleveled-ness. @Bryars/Ronan/Sleuf/etc: Karin: Don't think so. Already explained. Parn: Theives raep in this game, so I don't think I overrated him one bit. He even has some advantages over Rifis: slightly better stats later on, Sol, more movement stars. Asvel: He's your only magic user for a gigantic chunk of the game, and in a world where thrones/gates grant +10 Def but no Res, magic users are needed. Can you picture defeating Gomes or Largo without him? I sure can't. That's not to mention Graphcalibur, Continue before promotion, and pretty great stats. He may start out weak, but with a 75% Spd growth, he'll start DA-ing reliably after only a few level ups. Mareeta: Hm...maybe. What do you other pplz think? Nanna: We went over this last time. Carrion: He's great, but I wouldn't say he's quite good enough for top tier. He comes underleveled, and doesn't exactly bring anything super-unique to the table, like other top-tier doodz do. Leaf: No wai. Light Sword, leadership star, gives support to soooooooo many units, and will actually have somewhat of a level lead later on, due to being there for both chapters 1-3 AND 4-7. Homer: Like I already said, consider it done. Olwen: Okey doke. I was considering doing it already. Roberto: His great stats are nice, but he does come very underleveled in a pretty bad chapter for training him. That's not to mention the disadvantage that all bow-users have: a complete inability to be on the front lines. Sety and Galzus: They're ubergodly while they're there, but ONLY while they're there. And while they're there is only 2-3 chapters. Sarah: Maybe a little bit, but her underleveled-ness still hurts her. The only thing that kept her from being lower is Elite and her ability to both fight AND heal before promotion, meaning it is at least possible to train her. Miranda: Comes way too underleveled to be all that useful, IMO. Sleuf: I really don't see what's so great about him. A priest, of all things, that comes as underleveled as he does is never going to be trained without abuse. Even once trained, he won't bring anything to the table that other healers/magic users don't have, so training him is pointless. His movement stars are nice, but his low Mov kinda counteracts them. |
Formerly Dark Beta, Falaflame. Beta-Kraid or just Beta on other forums
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| +Bryars | Nov 10 2007, 06:51 PM Post #9 |
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Blood Weapons
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I guess I can't convince you on Karin. Pahn and Asvel, they're great units, but not...gods. Maybe that's because I do fine without them, but whatever. Though I completely forgot about another aspect about Asvel;His healing capabilities. So now, I guess I could consider him top tier. Mareeta owns as bad as Othin. Top tier, case closed. I hate Nanna because of her incredible 10% magic growth. I hate Saphy because she fatigues every chapter. I don't use either of them, except for the occasional Repair Staff. So I use my sages (Homer) instead. Carrion's growth's speak for themselves. Take a look at them if you have some time. Leaf's light sword brings his AS down, not to mention his speed's that wonderful in the first place. Honestly, he can't keep up with the other units. Skip Homer and Olwen... Eh, I just like archers. (Ronan!) :D Actually, I would put Sety, Cyas and Galzus on the same level. Sety's Holesty, Cyas's staff prestige, and Galzus multiple 20 stats earn them high tier, IMO. Just give Sarah an elite skill book, and watch the 4x experience fly. Wrath helps, too. I only like Miranda for wrath, as I said. She can stay where she is if she has too. I, personally, like Sleuf for his already A rank in staves. And having Amalda doesn't hurt. She's like a godlier version of Nanna...that doesn't need the Earth Sword to fight. |
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Look up into the stars and you're gone This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time | |
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| Mekkah | Nov 11 2007, 05:17 AM Post #10 |
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Othin owns for longer, and Mareeta needs her personal weapon to catch up in level, which she's also forced to use a few times when she joins. I also believe she can't get Shooting Star if you want to get SSS but that's just hearsay. |
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| Beta-Knight | Nov 12 2007, 01:00 PM Post #11 |
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whatever
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Cyas is fun to use sometimes, but...I really don't think he's even close to those two. You get him, you don't get Sety. Sety has every bit as much staff prestige as he does, along with Anima prestige, Continue(better than Nihil IMO), stats that are actually good, and ZOMG Holsety. Cyas's stats kinda suck, and aside from just a couple more leadership stars, there isn't one thing that he does that Sety can't do ten times better. Six more points of hit, avo, and crit are nice, but they're nothing in comparison to Sety's advantages.
Nanna's stats are better than Amalda's.  Amalda's bases: HP 34 Str 8 Mag 13 Skl 11 Spd 15 Lck 11 Def 9 Bld 8 And Nanna should be around the same level as her by that time, so... Nanna level 20/6 Paladin HP 30 Str 10 Mag 10.4 Skl 16.5 Spd 18.1 Lck 19.8 Def 7.6 Bld 7.4 And come endgame... Amalda, level 16 HP 41.0 Str 13.5 Mag 14.5 Skl 16.0 Spd 19.1(prolly capped, tho) Lck 17.0 Def 9.5 Bld 10.1 Nanna, level 20/16 35.0 12.5 11.4 19.1(prolly capped) 19.6(prolly capped) Lck 20(capped) Def 9.1 Bld 8.4 They're more or less equal around this point, but taking into account the fact that Nanna has the Earth Sword and has supports with Finn and Leaf... She can be decent with other swords after promotion. And before promotion, she is ALWAYS gonna have that Earth Sword. She'll even have it for a while after promotion, and since you get that Repair Staff so early, well... Before your sages promote, you're gonna need someone to heal for you. And with Nanna's high mobility and ability to level up fast by both fighting AND healing, she's your woman. |
Formerly Dark Beta, Falaflame. Beta-Kraid or just Beta on other forums
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| Former Guest | Nov 12 2007, 01:44 PM Post #12 |
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I personally wouldn't rate Eyvel over Dagda there. She's only around for a few chapters anyway, and she can't capture. Marty can capture. Capturing is the only way someone like Dagda even begins to earn a dip in the earlygame killing EXP pool at all when Othin and Halvan may not be able to do it....... The kid currently playing the game on YouTube doesn't have a clue. When you have 20/12 close combat prepromo stats and growths that suck like Eyvel's, sorry, it doesn't work that way. Starting only marginally more adept at offense than Finn, Othin and Halvan doesn't entitle her to be mooching soldier/pirate/armor kills from them at all, or from Leaf and Lifis for that matter. Since we're playing with an eye on the tactics rank here - Bryars I'm not sure about - what does she have left if not stats? Her movement stars. Her leadership bonus. Being able to erase Weissmann, Bucks and Lobos without the light sword, which would probably hurt the turn count. Protecting the ones who start extra frail, be they worthwhile for the long term (Nanna, Safy) or pisspoor (Tanya, Ronan). Hmmmm, Dagda can be subbed in for three of those four departments as well, but he's more durable and he can capture to boot.
Translation: I don't know what I'm talking about since I haven't provided an actual argument against her yet so I'll just bullshit sigh to save face.
Bzzzzt! When he promotes, lots of other stavers are wiping the floor with him in utility. He can heal like the rest of them, and that's about it. There's only one FoW map left, accessible if you let someone be captured. Obviously he's going to work that D rank up and reap the versatility of his class, but he never stands out in this regard of not costing other units EXP. When he promotes. And that's if he promotes, btw. FE5 is even stingier with promo items than 6. Asvel's fighting with at least several other units over a handful of knight crests who don't quite have the durability flaws he has. Continue + movement star + in-built support from Leaf + a trump card in Grafcalibur 'sall good, but don't entirely offset as much as they are affected by them.
LOLwut? Without Nanna and Safy you're running out of the vulneraries mostly stockpiled from Manster well before half the game is over, well before you can even have your sages. And then why would you wilfully ignore Physic, Barrier, Rescue, Warp? Don't spew your mindless hate in a debate topic. Make sense.
And Leaf doesn't need his light sword all the time. He isn't some magician where thoughts of hanging back are always on the mind. His AS should be shaping up more than sufficient when Leidrick imprisons him if he gets his fair share of kills.
Now I'm beginning to suspect you haven't actually played, let alone beaten, the game. Sarah has innate Elite, nub. Her problems stem from the same sources as Asvel's to a single-digit square power (Prayer and Elite reduce it from double): durability and joining underlevelled.
Sleuf sucks. Pourquoi? Only marginally less than Cyas, really, the reasons to field him over any other possible staver bar his joining map and Amalda's are zero. It doesn't particularly matter if he promotes or not, except he's not promoting. He's massively underlevelled. He can't fight back. The ship of opportunity to bless underlevelled newcomers with the Elite manual has sailed past his window of arrival. wtf? No, Amalda is not "godlier". She's a silent blip on this game's radar who can't so much as support the weak unit you need to recruit her with. Nanna has surpassed her in stats and service when she joins, if she joins, and then some. No Charisma or supports ftl. Nanna is the one making her better. :lol: Saying Nanna needs the earth sword to fight is like saying Leaf needs the light sword to fight. Laughably false and demonstrative of someone who's not good at the game, especially if you mean 24/7. That's what the YouTube amateur is going to think, too. Speaking of skill manuals, there should also be discussion around here on the most deserving and logical recipients for each of them as with FE4 pairings. Elite, for starters? I'm thinking Alba, Kane or Linoan out of all the characters void of natural skills, easily. Robert's also plenty usable for someone locked to bows, but just not an optimal choice for mining it for all it's worth since........he's locked to bows. Others have staff utility, level leads, or just suck (Tanya, Eda, Marty). Now, those lance knights are only decent out of the whole roster; their weapon selections kinda hurt them (initial junior ranks, being locked to one type at all times, and no axes). Linoan's self-explanatory. She fits the frail backlining healer bill well enough, is a hotbed of supports, and she's the only promotable character besides Leaf not fighting over a knight crest........but with a few maps in which to make it to 20/0. Trewd by a long shot if you want to endow any of the units with skills already. |
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| Mekkah | Nov 12 2007, 02:23 PM Post #13 |
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It kinds depends how many units you're using, which in turn depends on how badly you think fatigue will get to you. I mean, you do get like 10 of them in a reasonable time. Plus, you can hold that Knight Proof thing against about anyone. The reasoning with Eyvel is based on the fact that she keeps Nanna alive in Ch5 and not much more, but I think Eyvel is gay anyway. Though tbh whether Dagda is better is arguable, since he has the tendacy to trigger Charge against a lot of shit and steal kills anyway. And Charge triggers a lot since all Dagda has to do is be faster (and have more HP, but that is nearly always the case). |
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| Beta-Knight | Nov 12 2007, 05:09 PM Post #14 |
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whatever
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@Former guest:
O rly? I wasn't aware. A good number of unpromotes would be, say, ten(if not less), counting Leaf. That means nine Knight Proofs. Guess what? By the end of 12x, you'll have nine Knight Proofs. |
Formerly Dark Beta, Falaflame. Beta-Kraid or just Beta on other forums
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| +Ema Skye | Nov 12 2007, 09:24 PM Post #15 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Othin is way better in indoors chapters, which includes the final, IIRC. That puts him above Fin. |
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MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH
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