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| Voltaire vs. Inui; Lugh vs. Echidna | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 13 2007, 04:06 PM (252 Views) | |
| Cephas | Dec 13 2007, 04:06 PM Post #1 |
Dies Irę , Dies ilia; Solvet sęclum in favilla
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Alright, a coin flip says Inui may start. |
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I do not like fools. Mozart's music is hax. Formerly: Voltaire FEs I've played and how much I like them. 1. FE4 2. FE6 3. FE8, FE3 4. FE7 5. FE5(I don't like it at all). Salve, Regina, mater misericordiae: vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra, salve. Ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevae. Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes in hac lacrimarum valle. Eia, ergo, advocata nostra, illos tuos misericordes oculos ad nos converte. Et Iesum, benedictum fructum ventris tui, nobis post hoc exsilium ostende. O clemens, O pia, O dulcis Virgo Maria. Amen. St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle; be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the Devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, cast into Hell, Satan and all the other evil spirits, who wander throughout the world, seeking the ruin of souls. Amen. | |
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| +Ema Skye | Dec 18 2007, 11:52 PM Post #2 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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When Lugh is recruited, he's a massive liability with poor offense and even poor defense. Brigands one-shot him often, which is awful. He even dies to hand axes, which is beyond awful since it means he can't even attack those things safely. After going through a period of massive suck, Lugh will be around level 13 or so when Echidna joins. 22 HP and 6 Def means he's still one-shotted by steel axes, sadly. That's pretty bad. Even when Lugh has nearly full supports from Chad and Ellen, he's losing both durability and offense by a lot. Echidna has 13 more HP and 2 more Def, and then WTA vs the strongest weapon and the most common weapon in the lategame. WTA vs the horde of axe users means Echidna will win Evd by 2 and then Def by 3, upping her durability wins even more. For offense, she can one-round the axe users with Iron Blades, even. She can bust out h4x stuff like Hammers and Halberds to one-shot things, killers, etc. She has more Hit and a lot more Atk Spd right now. Echidna doesn't even have supports yet. Chad's often not fielded and Ellen is pretty bleh, as is Ray. Echidna has Lalum and Gonzales handed to her very easily; no competition at all. +12 Hit, +12 Crit, +5 Def/Res, +25 Evd, +25 Crit Evd = w1n. Full durability boosts + some offense = h4x, especially for Echidna. Her supports patch up her lategame Def, Res, and Luk holes very easily. Atk won't one-round Wyverns unless you are a magic user, so Crit is what matters, and she has tons of that and rapes whem with killer axes. Not being raped + raping enemies + having better supports >>>> Lugh's suck. |
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| Cephas | Jan 8 2008, 09:22 PM Post #3 |
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Dies Irę , Dies ilia; Solvet sęclum in favilla
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Lugh comes with less-than impressive bases in chapter 3, so one might even question using him in the first place. What justifies using him them? One, he is a competent wielder of Aircalibur, which rapes fliers, of which Dragon Knights are most prolific in this game. Two, a user of an otherwise untouched Forblaze tome due to the other two inferior options in Mages, thereby giving another ranged attack against those heavy hitting Mamkutes. Now how is he better than Echidna? Lugh is unpromoted while Echidna is prepromoted. Prepromotes gain less EXP than non promotes and it feels as if any kill will result in wasted EXP. I won't try to argue that Echidna is doing better than Lugh when she first joins, since it is quite clear that Echidna has an early lead. However, every kill she gets could have gone to someone who could have gained more experience and gotten better gains than her. Lugh hits resistance, Echidna hits Defense. Most enemies you face have less Resistance than Defense, so another point for Lugh. Even better, when Lugh promotes, he can heal as well fight, which means that he can make himself useful even when he has no one in the vicinity to fight. He can support with Chad and get Full Crit and Avoid with him. His secondary supports, I'll admit, are not too great. With Ellen, he gets more attack and crit. With Ray, more dodge and defense. Lugh is also helping out EXP rank more than Echidna. Ellen is a more likely possibility due to her being a healer and having a high Resistance growth, which can come in handy against those magic-capped Druids. While I may have to concede that Echidna's supports are better in the long run, Lugh has more time to build up his supports with Ellen and Chad. Chad definitely has chapters 5, 6, 8, 8x, 12, and 12x to build up supports with Lugh and all of the Western Isles have Axe users for him to fight. Echidna is also not going to get either the Durandal or Armads since she her competition for those weapons beat her statistically. So, better offense from hitting RES, earlier supports, helping out EXP rank, being able to heal and fight, and having unhindered access to Forblaze makes Lugh better than Echidna. |
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I do not like fools. Mozart's music is hax. Formerly: Voltaire FEs I've played and how much I like them. 1. FE4 2. FE6 3. FE8, FE3 4. FE7 5. FE5(I don't like it at all). Salve, Regina, mater misericordiae: vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra, salve. Ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevae. Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes in hac lacrimarum valle. Eia, ergo, advocata nostra, illos tuos misericordes oculos ad nos converte. Et Iesum, benedictum fructum ventris tui, nobis post hoc exsilium ostende. O clemens, O pia, O dulcis Virgo Maria. Amen. St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle; be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the Devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, cast into Hell, Satan and all the other evil spirits, who wander throughout the world, seeking the ruin of souls. Amen. | |
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| +Ema Skye | Jan 8 2008, 10:09 PM Post #4 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Killer Axe!Echidna is even better since she can take a whole group of them on the enemy phase without a chance of dying. Strongest normal enemy in Chapter 21:  Vs 20/13 Echidna with A Lalum/B Gonzales. ~7 Real Hit 23.2 Dmg to 44.0 HP. Normal Wyverns will have less SKL and be using a less accurate lance, so their Hit is 0, and she has infinite durability. Vs 20/10 Lugh with A Chad/B Ray. ~11 Real Hit 27.8 Dmg to 34.0 HP. Unlike Echidna, he can't get WTA, so he can't be immortal against the normal Wyverns. Even being exceedingly generous with supports, namely fielding Chad in the lategame in a chapter with no thieving and using an inferior unit in general, Echidna is crushing him in durability.
Clarine can use it, and she's much better than Lugh. Why is Hugh inferior?
Lugh is better for the Experience rank. Echidna is better for literally everything else.
Attacking Res over Def doesn't matter unless you're talking Armours, since enemies actually have solid Res. The Nomads in Sacae actually only have a 1-2 point difference, for instance. Magic users and Pegs/Falcos, which are abundant when combined, have way more Res than Def, so Lugh's offense is phail and Echidna's is pwn. She one-rounds magic users, while Lugh can't. Lugh has Aircalibur for Pegs/Falcos, but then Echdina has Halberd/Longsword for Cavs/Pals, and Hammer for Armours/Generals. What is Lugh killing that Echidna isn't at any point in the game? Healing is nice, but healing isn't needed to finish the game. Echidna adds durability to the team by having awesome durability herself, making Lalum and Gonzales more durable, and by killing threatening enemies. Lugh's healing only adds to his win in Experience, which is conceded.
Chad's a thief and can't promote. Outside of chapters where thieves are needed, he's not used, and most chapters do not need thieves at all, including Murdock, Brunya, and Yahn/Idoun's chapters. That's a huge hit to that support since it's often not on the field. Ellen sucks a lot, but she can be fielded for healing and being one of the best units for the Experience rank. She's still nowhere near as good as Echidna's partners, or Echidna herself.
Her partner in pwnage, Gonzales, is likey to get Armads. Echidna will S Axes earlier, so she can use it first, but Gonzales will probably have it for the final. Durandal is the first weapon you get, and can go to a huge shitload of people, so anyone arguing for that weapon is silly. Anyways, this point is so weak and minor it shouldn't even minor.
Where is this better offense from htting Res? Echidna has higher Atk until the very end of the game. Echidna has more Hit. Echidna has more Atk Spd for most of the game. Echidna has a lot of slayer weapons to rape things with. Echidna has tons more offense against magic users. Earlier supports are fine, but his partners are inferior to Echidna and her entire group, and one of them isn't fielded that much. Echidna also gets full durability bonuses, which pwns. Experience rank is conceded, but Echidna is doing better in everything else. She kills things faster for Combat, is more durable and saves others more for Survival, has a MOV lead initially and kills things faster for Tactics, and costs a lot less money due not needing a promotional item and using cheaper weaponry for Funds. Echidna wins. Who care about final chapter weapons? Echidna is raping anything before it with normal weapons. |
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8:57 PM Nov 26
