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| Morality | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 1 2008, 02:25 PM (934 Views) | |
| Soja | Nov 22 2008, 02:46 AM Post #46 |
Gentle Water, Crashing Waves
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You are half right. But you continue to give society too much credit when most of the influence goes to the person's rearing. The kind of role model a parent or parents play is a bigger determination in someone's personality than a society, depending on whether or not the parent follows societal mores. Oftentimes they do not. It then goes back to a moral grounding, and it is from there that an individual's choice will be made.
I doubt the first part very much. The only thing my race has affected is my ability to speak and understand another language, and perhaps to feel some attachment to the land of my ancestry. Gender is more correct, I think, since there is actual biochemistry that differs between the sexes and has an effect on one's mentality in regards to other people. Socioeconomic standing is the weakest of the variables you listed. Upbringing is the most important variable you omitted; someone with good parents, regardless of their socioeconomic standing, is far less likely to break the law than someone whose parents have been neglectful or apathetic.
Charming. That wasn't my point at all, although I don't believe that what some sociologists preach is infallible. Besides, there are multiple camps in sociology as there are in any scientific field. I fall in with the ones that believe that close acquaintances have a larger influence on a person than the society as a whole. And even then, it's only somewhat uncommon that someone will deviate from what's expected of them for one reason or another. Rebellion occurs frequently, for better or for worse. My main point in that last statement in my prior post was that if a person has a strong moral standard, he or she is very, very unlikely to commit a major crime or misdemeanor in spite of his or her economic or social class, which you say is a large variable in why people commit major crimes. To say that society is the chief component in pushing someone towards or away from crime is to strip the individual of responsibility, saying that it's not his fault he stabbed his wife in the face.
You seem to believe that it is impossible or at the very least highly unlikely that people can move up in the ranks simply because they were born into a state of poverty. The classes aren't static; they are constantly changing with people leaving them and falling into them, and what have you. I say you're still discounting the responsibility an individual has over him or herself. We aren't a perfect meritocracy in the United States, but the saying "you reap what you sow" still holds true in this country, perhaps more than any other. Someone born into wealth can very easily squander it away as well, you know. Edited by Soja, Nov 22 2008, 02:47 AM.
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| Yzarc | Nov 22 2008, 11:37 AM Post #47 |
Coxian
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And how the parents raise their kids is very likely to relate directly to their socioeconomic class. I connect child rearing with class, even if the connection isn't 100%. I understand that some parents raise their children differently than others in the same class. Those differences may come from the socioeconomic class that they used to be in, or maybe their race or gender. Certainly a single father would raise his son differently than a single mother in the same class. But there is still a connection between a person's class and his personality - how he is raised.
Okay, so race hasn't affected you very much. That's kind of a lame point because we're not, first of all, discussing race. Second of all, race does affect people all the time. Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean you get to make overarching claims like "race doesn't matter"
Again, I would say the two are very similar. Your personality is based on how your parents raise you. Their personality is based on how their parents raised them. And so on. And so on. How can that point to individualism if your personality is determined by your ancestry? Socioeconomic class is extremely important, particularly to lower class people, and I'll tell you why. Rich people may grow up with very very different parents, who got their wealth in different ways. But most poor kids grow up with parents (or just one parent) who is always working. Thus, the kids grow and experience life through their community. The fact is, though, that it's very unlikely if you grow up in a low socioeconomic class that your parents will be good parents.
Suppose I could have gone about that better...Think about the Tennessee v. Scopes. The judge banned any scientific evidence, so even though Scopes had the science to back up what he said, the judge would not hear it.
Most sociologists are, to some degree, social constructivists. If society didnt' matter in how parents raised their kids, then the best parent in the United States would raise his or her child the same way the best parent from China would (assuming you can qualify parents as good or bad). But clearly there is a significant difference in how children are raised here and how children are raised there. And that difference has nothing to do with all Chinese people being immoral. It has everything to do with the fact that they grow up in a completely different society.
Well...Yeah. I do believe it is high unlikely that people can move up the ranks if they were born into poverty. But that's not just me spouting bullshit. "Forty-two percent of children born to parents in the bottom fifth of the income distribution remain in the bottom, while 39 percent born to parents in the top fifth remain at the top." http://www.economicmobility.org/assets/pdfs/EMP_Across_Generations.pdf Just over half of the people in the lower class are likely to move up, and even then, it's probably not going to be more than one or two quintiles. As far as everyone has responsibility over himself...I think that's a whole separate argument that I don't want to get into, but I'm just gonna say that I truly don't believe that individual humans have what we would call "free will" and that, as such, praise and blame are only useful for encouragement and deterrence, rather than reward and retribution. I'm not going to argue why I think that, because I...Well, I just don't want to.
Someone born into wealth is far less likely to become poor than someone born into poverty is to end up poor. |
  
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| Twilight Reaper | Feb 9 2009, 05:30 PM Post #48 |
 
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1. I do believe their has been a decline in morality in society. For example children now days I feel are more disrespectful towards adults. 2. Well many factors establish what act is considered moral. Culture and religion is usually what establishes to some extent of what acts are considered moral. 3. Well I am not too sure about that. Even if we do have standardized code of moral, would people truly follow them? I highly doubt this claim you put forward would actually work. =/ 4. In law, morality is not very important unless if there is a legislation or a case for the public's interest. Morals are important because that is what others judge an individual on. Edited by Twilight Reaper, Feb 9 2009, 05:30 PM.
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12:53 AM Nov 8
