Soja

Mar 5 2008, 09:04 AM

Too often do detractors prefer to blame the religion rather than the practitioner. I don't blame them; it's easier to do that. It requires less delving into the kind of psyche it takes to commit some of the inhumanities people do. But I tell you the obvious when I say that there are many good Muslims, and many good Christians, and many good Hindus, Buddhists, and Pagans.

People will always use whatever they can to justify their actions. Religious beliefs are simply among the easiest ones to use.

Yzarc

 

But today, religion stands in the way of a lot of important things. I'm talking about evolution

Starcock

 

Yes, because knowing about evolution really makes a big impact on daily life. Not a day passes where I don't think, "Damn, if it wasn't for evolution then I wouldn't be here".

Yzarc Drowsnam

Mar 5 2008, 05:00 PM

I'm not sure what your point is. The fact still remains that the religious right thinks it's a good idea to feed false ideas into the minds of kids in science class, just because evolution goes against what they believe.

Yzarc

 

However, I feel that religion, today, is a detriment to society.

Yzarc

 

today, religion stands in the way of a lot of important things. I'm talking about evolution

Starcock

 

Learning about evolution or not learning about evolution does not make religion a detriment to society. The religious right != all people who practice a religion.

Starcock

 

Oh, and the current theory of evolution has some problems with it too

Yzarc

 

It doesn't affect you immediately whether or not we have our kids learning truth or fiction in science class, you're right. The fact of the matter is, evolution was just one example I gave concerning the evil, evil things the religious right is doing.

Yzarc

 

And I never did imply that all people of religion were a detriment to society. It's those in power that fuck things up. It's the pope saying stem cell research is immoral. It's the dumb states that mandate teaching creationism aka Intelligent Design. It's the ignorant people who hate homosexuality so much they don't want them to get married.

Yzarc

 

So does the theory of Relativity. So does fucking Atomic Theory. But you're gonna stand there and tell me that you think the scientists have it all wrong? You're no authority figure in the field of biology, geology or archeology. Nor am I. But I'm more inclined to believe a vast majority of scientists in that specific field than I am some religious people who are just pissed off that facts don't support their religion.

Soja

 

Everyone can argue as long as they want about evolution. It cannot be proven merely because of the extraordinarily enormous amount of time that it allegedly takes for a mutation to become part of an organism's hard genetic coding, or for how long some of those mutations take to form.

Soja

 

I don't believe that science is inherently opposed to religion. Both can coexist, and even benefit, from one another. Religion provides meaning to our lives, as well as ethics, and morals. Without the latter, especially ethics, what would science become but a ruthless and unfettered field of study in which no experiment was out of the question? I am certain that we would learn much more about the universe, but at the cost of our humanity?

Soja

 

The two can balance. I think it is vital that they do.

Soja

Mar 6 2008, 05:51 AM

I don't believe that science is inherently opposed to religion. Both can coexist, and even benefit, from one another. Religion provides meaning to our lives, as well as ethics, and morals. Without the latter, especially ethics, what would science become but a ruthless and unfettered field of study in which no experiment was out of the question? I am certain that we would learn much more about the universe, but at the cost of our humanity?

Break

Mar 9 2008, 03:09 PM

When your morals, ethics, "meaning for life", etc. is defined by religion, of course you need religion to uphold your humanity; it's circular logic. But I fail to see why upholding a moral code based solely on religion is the best thing to do for mankind.

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From what I've seen, a large part of Christian morality is the repression of perfectly harmless, human feelings, and I've yet to hear a reason for this that doesn't boil down to "because God says so".

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I'd be astonished if there was a Christian alive who has never been ashamed of something they've felt, simply be because their faith forbids it.

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Of course, the moral code of one religion does not equate the moral code of all of them, but it certainly doesn't help you to promote faith as a benefit to humanity, when that same faith may cause terrible emotional strife.

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Religion does have its bonuses, but it's not free from problems, especially when those bonuses can be obtained in other ways.

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And to say that without religion, scientists would become cruel and ruthless madmen who carry out horrific experiments without a care, well, it's quite a far-fetched conclusion to jump to.

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If the goal of science is to improve our understanding of the universe, and utilise that knowledge for the benefit of mankind, then I fail to see why human suffering would become irrelevent if there wasn't some dude in the sky telling us what we should and shouldn't do.

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PS: One perfect example of the above post. The reason why preists were eventually forbade to have children most likely was in order for all assets to eventually go to the church instead of the children. That was both a loophole/flaw in the religion and mans greed. Basing morals purely off religion instead of experience as well is not the wisest thing to do.

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THE SACRAMENT OF HOLY ORDERS

Importance Of Instruction On This Sacrament

If one attentively considers the nature and essence of the other Sacraments, it will readily be seen that they all depend on the Sacrament of Orders to such an extent that without it some of them could not be constituted or administered at all; while others would be deprived of all their solemn ceremonies, as well as of a certain part of the religious respect and exterior honour accorded to them. Wherefore in continuing the exposition of the doctrine of the Sacraments, it will be necessary for pastors to bear in mind that it is their duty to explain with even special care the Sacrament of Orders.

This explanation will be highly advantageous. First of all to the pastor himself, then to all those who have entered on the ecclesiastical state, and finally to the people in general. To the pastor himself, because by treating of this subject he himself will be more deeply moved to stir up within him the grace he has received in this Sacrament; to those who have been called to the portion of the Lord, partly by animating them with a like spirit of piety, and partly by affording them an opportunity of acquiring a knowledge of such things as will enable them all the more easily to advance to higher orders; to the rest of the faithful, first, because it enables them to understand the respect due to the Church's ministers, and secondly, because as it often happens that many may be present who have destined their children, while yet young, for the Church's service, or who desire to embrace that life themselves, it is far from right that such persons should be unacquainted with the principal truths regarding this particular state.

Dignity of this Sacrament

In the first place, then, the faithful should be shown how great is the dignity and excellence of this Sacrament considered in its highest degree, the priesthood.

Bishops and priests being, as they are, God's interpreters and ambassadors, empowered in His name to teach mankind the divine law and the rules of conduct, and holding, as they do, His place on earth, it is evident that no nobler function than theirs can be imagined. Justly, therefore, are they called not only Angels, but even gods, because of the fact that they exercise in our midst the power and prerogatives of the immortal God.

In all ages, priests have been held in the highest honour; yet the priests of the New Testament far exceed all others. For the power of consecrating and offering the body and blood of our Lord and of forgiving sins, which has been conferred on them, not only has nothing equal or like to it on earth, but even surpasses human reason and understanding.

And as our Saviour was sent by His Father, and as the Apostles and disciples were sent into the whole world by Christ our Lord, so priests are daily sent with the same powers, for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, and the edifying of the body of Christ.

Requirements in Candidates for Orders
Holiness, Knowledge, Prudence

The burden of this great office, therefore, should not be rashly imposed on anyone, but is to be conferred on those only who by their holiness of life, their knowledge, faith and prudence, are able to bear it.

Divine Call

Let no one take the honour to himself, but he that is called by God as Aaron was; and they are called by God who are called by the lawful ministers of His Church. It is to those who arrogantly intrude themselves into this ministry that the Lord must be understood to refer when He says: I did not send prophets, yet they ran. Nothing can be more unhappy and wretched than such a class of men as this, and nothing more calamitous to the Church of God.

Right Intention

In every action we undertake it is of the highest importance to have a good motive in view, for if the motive is good, the rest proceeds harmoniously. The candidate for Holy Orders, therefore, should first of all be admonished to entertain no purpose unworthy of so exalted an office.

This subject demands all the greater attention, since in these days the faithful often sin gravely in this respect. Some there are who embrace this state to secure the necessaries of life, and who, consequently, seek in the priesthood, just as other men do in the lowest walks of life, nothing more or less than gain. Though both the natural and divine law lay down, as the Apostle remarks, that he who serves the altar should live by the altar; yet to approach the altar for the sake of gain and money is one of the very gravest of sacrileges.

Some are attracted to the priesthood by ambition and love of honours; while there are others who desire to be ordained simply in order that they may abound in riches, as is proved by the fact that unless some wealthy benefice were conferred on them, they would not dream of receiving Holy Orders. It is such as these that our Saviour describes as hirelings, who, in the words of Ezechiel, feed themselves and not the sheep, and whose baseness and dishonesty have not only brought great disgrace on the ecclesiastical state, so much so that hardly anything is now more vile and contemptible in the eyes of the faithful, but also end in this, that they derive no other fruit from their priesthood than was derived by Judas from the Apostleship, which only brought him everlasting destruction.

But they, on the other hand, who are lawfully called by God, and who undertake the ecclesiastical state with the single motive of promoting the honour of God, are truly said to enter the Church by the door.

This, however, must not be understood as if the same law did not bind all men equally. Men have been created to honour God, and this the faithful in particular, who have obtained the grace of Baptism, should do with their whole heart, their whole soul, and with all their strength.

But those who desire to receive the Sacrament of Orders, should aim not only at seeking the glory of God in all things ,­an obligation admittedly common to all men, and particularly to the faithful ­­ but also to serve Him in holiness and justice in whatever sphere of His ministry they may be placed. Just as in the army all the soldiers obey the general's orders, though they all have not the same functions to discharge, one being a centurion, another a prefect, so in like manner, though all the faithful should diligently practice piety and innocence, which are the chief means of honouring God, yet they who are in Holy Otters have certain special duties and functions to discharge in the Church. Thus they offer Sacrifice for themselves and for all the people; they explain God's law and exhort and form the faithful to observe it promptly and cheerfully; they administer the Sacraments of Christ our Lord by means of which all grace is conferred and increased; and, in a word, they are separated from the rest of the people to fill by far the greatest and noblest of all ministries.