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| FE 8 Tier List | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 20 2008, 10:36 PM (2,477 Views) | |
| Mekkah | Feb 5 2008, 09:52 AM Post #46 |
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As it is now, the units are kind of placed into order of usefulness, and then they put lines between them and called it tiers. Quite possibly, this process was done in reverse order, but if properly done it gives the same results. Personally, I prefer just going by Top/High/Mid/Trash.
I beg to differ. I think he is useful to a very extent, but his mobility problem prepromotion should not be overlooked. He's the least flexible out of everyone before promotion, to the point where he may not meet the fray in time to get EXP. Due to this, Franz gains a level lead on him and will beat him to the first Knight Crest, which gives him a pretty delayed promotion. Another problem is that his durability early on is nearly overkill, as FE8 earlygame is so damn easy. In fact, using semi-frail units like Franz and Eirika allows Moulder to get healing EXP...pretty often you are taking little to no damage every round either way. Then later on, both his offense and defense become arguably the worst on a realistic team consisting of "good" units. His attacking Spd is horrible, he can't double for shit, and enemies aren't OHKOable like that. He also sucks at dodging, and while he's fine with melee, that just blows against magic. His outstanding Def is no longer a unique niche, as by now everyone's avoid picked up and pretty much every enemy on the map either hasn't seen your army yet or is dead.
Swiftsoles are not exclusive to Gilliam just because he has lower movement than everyone else. I personally would give them to a unit with move again, as they use their full movement more often than those without. Gilliam sometimes has that (Great Knight)...but still, I'd rather put them on, yes, Tethys. That's not a waste. That gives her huge flexibility for those she can dance for and allows other units to move much further. She basically gets more choices on whether to boost your team's mobility as well as offense (let a unit attack again), defense (let a unit heal again) or anything really.
I agree she should be split, but I don't like Tana much as a unit anyway.
Then that makes Colm higher than her, and that's it. Says nothing about her position against anywhere else. Same for the "crappy prepromote" - what does that matter, other than proving that Vanessa and Colm are Gods while Rennac and Syrene are Trash? You are severely underestimating how quickly Vanessa picks up on avoid and attacking power. She has so much raw speed, and gains +25 avoid from supports on top of it fairly quickly. She can exchange Spd for power by equipping heavier lances if needed, and gains +5 Atk from supports with awesome units too. She is great in combat. And THEN she also has awesome flier utility in several spots which is unmissable. Plus, she has a great joining time, which you liked to praise Gilliam for. |
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| Mekkah | Feb 5 2008, 10:02 AM Post #47 |
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This is what I'd do. I don't believe in ordering within tiers, so I just went by the alphabet. God Colm Ephraim [Eph] Franz Lute Moulder Seth Tethys [Eir] Vanessa High Arthur Cormag [Eph] Eirika [Eir] Ephraim [Eir] Forde Gerik [Eir] Kyle Natasha Tethys [Eph] Mid Cormag [Eir] Duessel [Eph] Eirika [Eph] Garcia Gerik [Eph] Gilliam Innes [Eir] Joshua Myrrh Neimi Ross Tana [Eph] Tana [Eir] Low Amelia Dozla Duessel [Eir] Ewan Innes [Eph] Knoll L'Arachel Marisa Rennac Syrene |
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| Kuiper | Feb 5 2008, 10:26 AM Post #48 |
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Where's Vanessa? |
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| Mekkah | Feb 5 2008, 11:43 AM Post #49 |
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She's off to a village. |
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| Former Guest | Apr 10 2008, 10:23 AM Post #50 |
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It had to just dawn on me to inquire: why do you say that, Mekkah? Shows far more conviction in its reasoning. Far more conviction is far less boring to debate. And you forgot Saleh. Cormag on both routes is only middle tier. At least he can start off with up to 2 extra AS on Eirika's. Even 12 AS can make his double attacking inconsistent, and there are magick/bow obstacles (duly noted in both routes) he can never entirely shrug off thanks to having some of the limpest frontliner evade. Neimi = bottom of middle tier or low tier, and that's being kind. Apart from picking off flyers without taking a counter, eh. She's going to require far more attention to promote than almost everyone else with little help from supports and no help from her bad class and still isn't that good. Might as well put Innes right above her too, as sucky as he is. At least Innes starts off able to one-round some other things than flyers on either route. Seth Franz Moulder Colm Lute Ephraim Vanessa -tier gap- Tethys Gerik Eirika Natasha Artur Kyle Forde Tana -tier gap- Saleh Joshua Cormag Duessel Gilliam Myrrh Garcia Ross Innes Neimi -tier gap- L'Arachel Rennac Marisa Dozla Knoll Ewan Syrene Amelia Something like that. |
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| Mekkah | Apr 10 2008, 01:24 PM Post #51 |
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I think some triangles are just unsolvable. Fun to theorize about, I'll give it that. I made a tier list with order within tiers for FE7 for kicks though, but I still think that there's plenty to debate just with tier gaps. I do think Colm is the best, though lately I've been wondering: do I have to use Colm to get the stuff he nabs? I don't have to fight with him, just field him and steal and get chests. Does that even fall under "using"? Well, if it is, he's the best unit hands down in my opinion. Neimi...support troubles? Fastest support in the game with Colm, who is guaranteed use pretty much. That's an A in the bag. Then Garcia is middish, usable and all, and early, and it's Fire/Fire. And Arthur is great and early as well. Yeah, she's an Archer, but she doesn't have Rebecca's earlygame suck and she can actually use swords post promotion. Arthur and Lute, an entire tier gap? You'll have to explain that one to me. Arthur isn't Lucius, he actually gets evade from supports, and he's pretty much the only person who gets real merit out of Ivaldi (only person who can S-rank Light before the game is over and be helped by it...Bishops do more damage with Aura). I dunno what you've done with route specifics, taken their average? Either way, I don't like Eph route Gerik that much. All these early game people own the shit out of him on their level lead and 1-2 range before promotion. Rennac > L'Arachel. She may boss him around, but she can't touch thief utility at all. Lol, lategame healer that has to promote at like L11 to be even remotely useful on enemy phase. |
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| Former Guest | Apr 10 2008, 02:40 PM Post #52 |
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Neimi's damage output in the actual game is pretty horrible and outdone by almost everyone except vs. flyers. That plus her bad class are naturally going to reduce her to a lower level than most of the team for whatever map she's fielded. So midgame, she can miss the one-round on low defense enemies like mages or shamans. The crit she gets from Fire affinity isn't going to matter until her supports are full or almost full. Good luck for reasoning that will happen before promotion.
The gap's not that big, but he doesn't have Lute's raw offensive might to be one-rounding as often and then Fire also pwns Lightning in raw offensive might. However, even considering that Lute struggles to double attack certain things midgame like gargoyles/mauthe doogs/deathgoyles/peg knights/rangers/mercenaries/myrmidons sometimes even when they're weighed down, her superior Res-targeting damage in one hit > some meager crit advantage since Artur isn't a bishop yet. Then she has the option of a horse after promotion and Artur doesn't. As for the FE7 remark: Artur is high tier, and Lucius is about lower on the scale: bottom of high tier or top of middle tier. What's the problem?
Forde, Joshua, and Tana probably don't. Wind affinity, not that desirable or stalwart. On Eirika's route, they're also losing in terms of raw combat and other utility to the very adequate Saleh for a while.
Tethys isn't ever useful on enemy phase, and I don't see her budging from approx. top of high tier.  Without L'Arachel, that garbage costs 10 grand just to control. What reason do you have to ever field him over Colm? L'Arachel quits being a sixth-rate healer.........eventually........post-game. :lol: Rennac sux on both phases forever. |
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| Mekkah | Apr 10 2008, 04:27 PM Post #53 |
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Failing to one round Mages/Shamans? You kidding?  Anyway, Neimi has the advantage of being able to promote as soon as she wants to to lose that I'm-locked-to-bows, since her promotion item is hers only and comes as early as Ch6. That turns her into some sort of prepromote in a can, and since promoting early in FE8 is actually pretty desirable, I can't see why you wouldn't. Of course, it makes her ending averages worse, but her overall results on the map better, and she won't hit 20/20 at any rate. She'll be better off, and able to use Killing Edges before too long.For supports, she's getting an A with Colm earlier than anyone is getting anything else. If she isn't getting anything out of it, nobody is. The other support is slower, but she also needs it less.
Arthur is actually better than Lute until Lute doubles. That >>> any small advantages like "lol a little bit more damage". Before too long they will both be one rounding pretty much everything. Horse? Option of Slayer => Option of a Horse. Hell, option for C staves > horsey. FE7: Yeah, just making sure you weren't confusing the two or something.
Forde and Joshua maybe. Tana has an extremely good case against Gerik at the time he joins, it's just her negative when she joins holds her back. Isn't Saleh Wind too? 8) I like him anyway.
Neimi for high tier.
That's merely recruitment. You can do that with a base level L'Arachel, and not use her for anything else. At any rate, using her also means spending 5k on a promotion item, while Rennac is prepromoted. In Scorched Sand, you'll want to dig up your loot with two thieves. In Ruled By Madness, there's two sides with chests. In Last Hope, there's two chest rooms. In Sacred Stone, there's two small chest rooms.
Post-game doesn't even count. Seeing through Last Hope's Fog of War (for humongous range at that using a Torch) > that. |
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| Former Guest | Apr 15 2008, 01:58 PM Post #54 |
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If her supports happen not to be around her or in play, it's not out of the question.
Stunting her already poor offense and durability = whoamg terrible idea. You want to make her look even worse vs. the bleh Innes than she already is? It probably works if you're not playing hard mode, I guess.
No, not really. Hard mode is the only reason to play this game, where enemy stats don't flunk quite as much as you seem to think. The promoted versions, namely.
Because she gets a mount earlier? Not much concerning her performance changes, actually. She doesn't consistently double attack things, uses the weaker weapon types, and targets defense.
She wants all the attack she can get from supports, not that it really helps her gain EXP much faster, being as mostly nonexistent as she is on enemy phase.
10/0 Artur w/ Lightning and C Lute: 23 HP, ~14 attack, ~11 AS, ~120 hit, ~10 critical, ~30 evade, ~10 critical evade, ~4 defense, ~11 resistance 10/0 Lute w/ Fire and C Artur: 20 HP, ~17 attack, ~10 AS, ~115 hit, ~4 critical, ~40 evade, ~15 critical evade, ~5 defense, ~13 resistance 8-10/0 average enemiez soldier: 27-31 HP, 0-2 AS, 14-20 attack, 74-90 hit, 1-6 critical, 1-9 evade, 1-3 critical evade, 1-3 resistance archer: 24-27 HP, 4-7 AS, 13-18 attack, 85-105 hit, 3-4 critical, 11-19 evade, 3-5 critical evade, 1-2 resistance pirate: 26-28 HP, 3-8 AS, 16-21 attack, 72-88 hit, 2-3 critical, 7-18 evade, 1-2 critical evade, 1-2 resistance fighter: 30-31 HP, 4-8 AS, 18-23 attack, 74-90 hit, 3 critical, 9-19 evade, 1-3 critical evade, 1-2 resistance mercenary: 26-28 HP, 10-12 AS, 12-17 attack, 100-120 hit, 6-36 critical, 23-28 evade, 2-4 critical evade, 1-3 resistance mage: 22-23 HP, 6-7 AS, 11-12 attack, 102 hit, 3-4 critical, 15-16 evade, 1-3 critical evade, 5-7 resistance myrmidon: 24-26 HP, 11-14 AS, 10-17 attack, 102-130 hit, 6-36 critical, 26-32 evade, 3-4 critical evade, 1-4 resistance cavalier: 28-30 HP, 5-9 AS, 14-20 attack, 83-106 hit, 3-4 critical, 13-22 evade, 3-4 critical evade, 1-3 resistance pegasus knight: 21-22 HP, 1-11 AS, 11-18 attack, 85-110 hit, 4-10 critical, 6-27 evade, 4-5 critical evade, 6-7 resistance brigand: 30 HP, 5-8 AS, 18-23 attack, 71-86 hit, 2 critical, 12-18 evade, 2 critical evade, 1-2 resistance Ball looks in Lute's court to me for one-rounding opportunities. For the most part, Artur needs three charges of his basic tome to kill something whereas Lute only needs two. Of course, Artur could raise the stakes with Shine, but then he drops just below Lute in AS in order to tie her in dph. 10 critical rate = not reliable.
Pass. Neimi doesn't serve anywhere near as beneficial a function as essentially cloning one of your better units, and she isn't one of them herself unless you consider twentysomething in line out of thirtysomething among the better units. It’s a no-brainer who is the better Fire affinity unit between these two.
His affinity balances some offensive and defensive boosts, but who wants to support him? Other low tiers like L'Arachel and Dozla, maybe - why should Colm or Tethys be forced to wait to indulge him as a B? - they're his quickest options. Anyways, his supports are building up very late and his partners are barely giving him any concrete offense, so the extra critical is wasted. They’re not going to make him a decent fighter or anything special at surviving. And where does Rennac get a window of opportunity to level up? His starting offense/durability prepromoted package is pretty laughable for when he joins, remember? I wouldn’t call it decent.
Big deal. Eirika can go digging, Lute can have outstanding mobility in the desert and find room to be of service besides that, etc.
Big deal. There are quite a few promoted enemies guarding Orson on either route, so Colm has ample time to visit both sides starting with the western before all of the throne area resistance is wiped out.
Big deal. I’d much rather use Rennac’s slot on someone with actual supports who can be of help with the swarm of strong prepromoted enemies. You can have Moulder/Natasha warp Colm en route to the second treasure chamber right after he’s finished with the first, and maybe someone with a B rank can rescue him from the first chamber if circumstances present the possibility he may not get around to all the chests in 13 turns. Typically, I don’t even need the rescue staff and he also manages to find time to steal the goddess icon up north and visit the secret shop.
Big deal. Practically adjacent to each other and someone who isn’t Rennac could even be equipped with a spare chest and door key to speed things up. As you can no doubt tell by now, I avoid the schmuck from Carcino like the bubonic plague.
I can just have my promoted Colm do that, or have someone like Lute penetrate the fog from considerable range. Rennac can kindly fuck off. I'd gladly settle for someone else with a torch who doesn't blow complete dick at fighting and surviving, really. Rennac's wildly inferior on those counts no matter what. |
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| Mekkah | Apr 15 2008, 02:43 PM Post #55 |
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Samples or it didn't happen.
I didn't mean to imply to promote her AT Ch6, just that it's available from that point always. I usually promote my units around Phantom Ship since that chapter is major gay and you can make nice use of the promotion bonuses there. 15/1 till ~15/3 Neimi is superior over her unpromoted counterpart (assuming 5 levels unpromoted for every 3 promoted ones - being on enemy phase + being better in general versus gaining a little more EXP per kill...I'd say it's fair). Then 15/6 vs 20/1 is more EXP for one, but better weapon level for the other, and it'll stay that way until she level caps...oh wait, she doesn't. 15/1 Ranger Neimi, A Colm, B Garcia 17.3 atk, 15.4 AS, 58.3 hit, 31.8 crit - - 58.8 avo, 26.7 hp, 9.1 def, 10.9 res Swords, Bows That's not :that: bad. Like, a random mid tier such as Joshua: 17/1 Swordmaster Joshua, A Natasha, B Arthur 16.2 atk, 19.6 AS, 68.3 hit, 36.3 crit - - 61.8 avo, 38.6 hp, 11.4 def, 7.4 res Swords More Atk, gives off better bonuses, actual 2-range to not take counters versus 4 AS, 5 Crt and a seizable durabilty lead. Wouldn't you say they're about even?
My point was, Neimi has some of the best supports and speeds in the game. If she has trouble getting anything out of supports, everyone is.
Too lazy to look at it accurately but I really doubt their difference is seizable. I might change my mind when I actually look at them.
I was merely parodying you whimping off L'Arachel's dumbness on enemy phase while emphasizing Neimi's. I'm aware Tethys is godly - I think she's God Tier in Eirika and High in Ephraim.
That has...nothing to do with what I said?_? That's merely recruitment. You can do that with a base level L'Arachel, and not use her for anything else. At any rate, using her also means spending 5k on a promotion item, while Rennac is prepromoted.
Rennac has 100% chance of finding them. Others have Luk%, which is 30%. That's gay, I'd have to reset until they find it or something. Lute is also better as a Mage Knight imo...it's arguable at least, and whenever she is a Mage Knight, 1-2 move ftw.
Or Colm can come along when you're taking the east route and give support bonuses while Rennac does the other chests. !
Haha, are you kidding? You can bring half the entire cast to Last Hope. There's no excuse for not bringing an extra Rogue here. No need to waste Warp charges.
Could, could, could. He does it without wasting those!
Or those others go fighting while Rennac Torches and picks chests so you have more offense AND more sight overall. Sounds like a great deal. Anyway, I believe this was Rennac vs L'Arachel for the most part...I can't see Lute's ability to use Torch Staff help justify L'Arachel > Rennac. If anything, the opposite. |
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| C475_1337 | Apr 15 2008, 03:00 PM Post #56 |
One serious d00d
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Pointing out that you have other options for doing what Rennac does is completely pointless; you also have other options for absolutely anything that L'Arachel does. |
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| Former Guest | Apr 16 2008, 10:38 AM Post #57 |
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Ideally, L'Arachel's getting fielded on at least two chapters by default before hitting the bench or a low tier costs 10,000G. There's no outstanding thief utility reason to field Rennac beyond his single joining chapter. Then she's a backup healer, and isn't costing a slot on one of her chapters. Rennac does nothing for his one chapter, and no, maybe falling berserk due to enemy priest/druid doesn't count. All of the ch. 14 thieving/plundering is taken care of by the time he's recruited and he trades the member card to a mounted unit to reach the secret shop with more efficiency. |
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| Mekkah | Apr 20 2008, 03:03 PM Post #58 |
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It's only taken care of if you save opening his door until the last. You have no real reason to do that, it's like me deciding that Eirika route L'Arachel is recruited after I've taken care of all enemies on the east side while working my way towards her. And on Ephraim route you actually have to clear pretty much everything until it's safe to recruit her. I told you reasons to field Rennac after his initial chapter. And in fact, he's the best for that barring Rogue Colm, and mayhaps you aren't always training Colm (though if you do, Neimi++). |
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