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| Bizox and Sety vs Mekkah and Tiltyu | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 10 2008, 07:21 PM (403 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | Feb 10 2008, 07:21 PM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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ohsnapz Mekkah beware of tl;dr |
 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Bizox | Feb 13 2008, 08:25 PM Post #2 |
Worst unit in Jugdral! :D
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HOWEVER I AM THE ONE OPENING SO THE TL;DR COULD BE PREVENTED. MAYBE. Alright, Titania. She comes in a few levels away from promotion to Gold Knight, with an S in axes at the beginning of Part 3. Being an axe-wielder with respectable speed, she can double a fair amount of enemies. Those that she fails to double are generally weak enough so that she can use a Poleax or a weapon with an effect to kill them in one blow since axes are GAR compared other weapons, and Titania has more than enough skill to have to worry about missing. Gatrie joins the same time as Titania, but with considerably less move, a good 10 levels away from promotion, and weird-ass orange hair. As well, he lacks any S-ranks in weapons, though he has two instead of one, and can't last for as long against mages to start, or in the long run for that matter. Supportswise, Titania has Ike. That's pretty damn good, no question. Titania could have Ike via FE9 rather easily, or without data transfer. It's a fast support, and beneficial for both, considering that Earth is such an avoid-happy support, and Titania's durability is decent to start, but loses its luster slightly as the game moves on. Gatrie could potentially have a Bond support with Shinon from FE9, but that's all. He has other decent support options, but being a low-movement unit, he might not always get the bonuses from the supports all the time. Low movement is nothing but bad, really. So let's make this look a little more debaet-ish and get some numbers in here. It's not hard at all to have Titania ready for promotion by the time the first Master Crown comes along. She's already Lv 16 when you get her, so you might as well promote her at Lv. 20 instead of earlier. We'll up Gatrie to Lv 15 by that time. Here we go: Titania Lv 1 Gold Knight HP: 42.4 ±1.4 STR: 29.0 ±0.5 MAG: 14.6 ±1.1 SKL: 26.1 ±1.1 SPD: 25.0 ±1.4 LUK: 20.6 ±1.4 DEF: 23.8 ±0.8 RES: 19.1 ±0.8 Gatrie Lv 15 Lance General HP: 45.0 ±0.5 STR: 26.9 ±0.8 MAG: 5.3 ±0.8 SKL: 20.3 ±1.7 SPD: 22.6 ±1.1 LUK: 16.5 ±1.4 DEF: 27.0 ±1.7 RES: 12.8 ±1.7 So Titania wins in everything but HP and Defense. No surprise there. The level lead may dissolve a little, but there's really no reason why it should dissolve entirely. She's the best unit you have throughout Part 3; it's not like there's any reason to stop using her. Aaaand I'm going to rag on Gatrie's wtfail move more, hang in there. Those stats won't mean much if he's not on the front lines. Like I said, he won't always be within 3 spaces of his support partner due to his low move. Putting it simply, he just can't keep up, particularly with Titania.  So, Titania starts out better than Gatrie, and it pretty much stays that way. Gatrie may be slightly more durable, but despite Gatrie's sick speed growths, most of his other stats don't stand up to Titania's at all. (Thanks for all the help on this post, Sety. <<;) |
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| Mekkah | Feb 18 2008, 12:12 PM Post #3 |
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Tiltyu thought up most of the things we could use while I wrote it and used Serene's/FEPlanet/all Tiltyu could tell me for gathering data and an idea of this game. gl Alright, for this debate we'll be assuming something like Easy or Normal Mode for the following reasons: - rules say nothing about them - Hard Mode fries your brains - there's no enemy samples available for anything, and enemy stats are uncalculable without knowing how HM bonuses work - Hard Mode fries your brains
How about we look at their stats without stereotyping them? Titania: HP: 36 Str: 25 Mag: 10 Skl: 22 Spd: 21 Luk: 19 Def: 20 Res: 14 Con: 8 + S axes Fatrie: HP: 44 Str: 25 Mag: 5 Skl: 18 Spd: 20 Luk: 15 Def: 24 Res: 11 Con: 13 + A lances, B axes Titania doesn't have to worry about missing? K, Gatrie doesn't either, his Skl is only 4 less and he has better WT control, plus lances are more accurate to begin with. Titania is doubling respectably? Ok, Gatrie doubles the same enemies as Titania 99% of the time due to only 1 less Spd. Titania can OHKO stuff with Pole when needed? Ok, Gatrie can too, he has the same Str, and can use most of the same axes (lol at rare Tomahawk and late Ulvan) Titania can use an effect weapon when needed? Do you mean "Titania can use Hammer, oh wait Gatrie can too, oh wait Gatrie can use Horseslayer for triple Mt against mounts"? Ok. Then Gatrie has 8 more HP and 4 more Def for much better durability, which easily buffers Titania's miniscule avoid lead. For Res, there are way too few magic enemies at this point, plus they need to eat like 2 hits each before Titania's 3 Res lead > Gatrie's 8 HP lead on them anyway. Also, Gatrie is so much better against swordies due to lances being available to begin with, and can actually attack those without a counter often enough (Javelin/Short Spear) while Titania will really have trouble hitting them.
3-P and 3-1 don't really call for high movement since both Gatrie and Titania are out of the thick of the fight (most enemies and the boss are Laguz fodder). You're taking your time on the long end, sticking together with your group, so Titania's not anywhere near using her full move. In 3-2, Gatrie makes probably your best candidate for Celerity (taken from Tormod and transferred by Ilyana), which gives him +2 move. For one, because that allows him to keep up with whichever support partners you picked for him. For two, because his durability is so enormous you want him to be more flexible and frontlining more often - celerity on him > celerity on others. Therefore, screw Tit's move lead. Then in 3-4 and 3-7, Titania becomes like impossible to advance due to mountains/river while Gatrie walks over them like a true man and actually becomes more mobile. Also, on the Great Bridge chapter, Titania can't go across the holes in the bridge, while Gatrie can be carried across.
Titania indeed gets some of Ike, while Gatrie gets a stacked Bond from Shinon plus a random support of your choice. Either way, anyone can support with anyone in this game, so it's more about affinities. Cool thing about Gatrie is that his durability is so enormous that he doesn't need an Earth support, which can then go to someone else in your team. Titania requiring an Earth support takes it AWAY from the rest of the team, so Gatrie is actually winning that. The movement problem ain't no problem after 3-2 as I've explained.
Indeed, she has these stat leads, although this is quite possibly the best possible comparison in favor of Titania that exists. And Gatrie still has something over her (besides HP/Def): BEXP abuse. He can actually gain above average stats now since he capped HP, Str, Spd, and soon enough Def, which allows him to gain RNG-proof level-ups in his weaker areas. Titania has no such advantage. Using some maths, I came to the conclusion that this boost is about +3 Skl/+2 Luk/+2 Res/+1 Mag for lategame. There's a lot of had-to-measure factors in there, but I don't really think you have the right to bitch about it: BEXP bonuses net him +12 guaranteed stats, and I only gave him +11. So nyah. A stat transfer from FE9 allows him to do this even earlier, btw. Everything else is either about movement (which has been and will be covered plenty) or conclusive (and wrong at that), so uh late game comparison I guess? Then, during part 4, Titania's utility dwindles while Gatrie remains a one-man army, making enemies wet themselves (the reason depends on their gender), until like the final. They're about the same level by now...I don't think Titania getting 1 or 2 levels ahead would matter a lot for this comparison so booyah. Titania (20/18) HP: 52.0 Str: 34.0 Mag: 17.0 Skl: 34.1 Spd: 32.1 Luk: 26.9 Def: 26.7 Res: 23.8 Gatrie (20/18) HP: 57.4 Str: 36.0 Mag: 10.3 Skl: 31.8 Spd: 31.0 Luk: 23.1 Def: 37.0 Res: 24.4 So Gatrie wins in good amounts of HP (5.4), Str (2) and Def (11!!!), quite easily more important stats than Mag (6.7), Skl (2.3), Luk (3)...Titania does have a 1 point Spd lead, which will matter about as often as Gatrie's extra 0.8 Res. Then we take these bonus EXP things into account, in addition to new hoses of that due to more capramming happening after promotion, which should woosh away Titania's last leads. Add his superior weapon triangle control, and what we're left with is a monster. He makes straight men gay and gay men gayer. He is so manly. |
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| +Ema Skye | Feb 28 2008, 12:20 PM Post #4 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Sety times out, as usual.
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MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH
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4:10 PM Nov 8
