| Welcome to Fire Emblem Fusion. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Zihark; Just Curious | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Feb 25 2008, 07:50 PM (1,260 Views) | |
| smash fanatic | Mar 1 2008, 05:21 AM Post #31 |
 
|
Please read what I'm covering before you try to counter me. Whoever I was against said that Mia has authority stars under Ike, and gets avo/hit. I said it doesn't matter at all because the two don't fight each other for a spot on the team until part 4, and by then Zihark gets authority star'd as well. Therefore, any stat comparisons made between the two won't even matter until part 4. I thought it would've been obvious that I was talking about units who are actually still half decent, not trash that shouldn't even exist. Even Mid tier units can rape part 4. That's how much of a joke it is. That's why I give more weight to leads in the first three parts over a lead in part 4, and that's why I rank Zihark over Mia. He's much more useful in the first three parts than Mia is. |
| |
 |
 
|
| Blackbird | Mar 1 2008, 03:55 PM Post #32 |
|
What I read at the top of your post was "comparisons before part 4 don't even matter, because everyone rapes equally". Nothing was mentioned about authority, but since we are going there... The comparisons do matter, because Mia's offense is still better regardless of what the authority bonus is. It's better in Part 3, and it's better in Part 4. You claimed several posts ago that Mia's offense was poor. However, I think I've proven pretty conclusively that Mia's offense is better than Zihark's for the duration of the game, so where does that leave him? You've got two options. 1) Mia's offense is actually good, in which case, Zihark is free to have good offense as well (although not quite as good as Mia's). 2) Mia's offense is poor. In which case, Zihark's, by comparison, is terrible. Mia's concrete durability is better, as well, because she has a larger HP safety net and more defense. This is also unrelated to authority, and thus is valid for comparison before part 4. Another secondary bonus is that Mia's 2nd tier bases are so high that she is likely to cap several stats early, meaning she will get more bonus exp levels to pump up average stats (str, def, res) than Zihark, further widening their durability and offense gap. At the part 4 argument: Yeah, people make that argument about FE8. Some go so far as to say the entire game is a joke, since it has unlimited exp. However, even there, you can still compare units, and say Unit A will be better to field in place of Unit B. It's true that Mid tier units will still do well on part 4, but they only do that well because they can fall back on higher tier units like Tibarn, Ike, Mia, etc. to back them up if the enemy reinforcements become too much. It's a whole team effort. Mia is still pulling more weight than Zihark in 4. Usefulness: "[Zihark] is much more useful in the first three parts than Mia is." Zihark is useful in 50% of Part 1 and 5% or so of Part 3. During the half of Part 1 that Zihark exists, he is useful, but not vital, because you have other very strong units helping the team out as well. As I've previously mentioned, it may actually be detrimental to use him, because he is overleveled, and has less to gain from kills than Micaiah, Aran, Edward, Nolan, Jill, or Illyana. Meanwhile, Mia exists for 95% of Part 3. 95% of a very large Part > 55% of two smaller Parts. Mia is available more of the time, and in a continuous segment, so she is helping your team for more of the game. Furthermore, Mia is never a potential detriment to your team. In fact, she has some of the better offense on the Greil Mercs early on, because she will double the earliest. |
|
|
|
| Barst | Mar 1 2008, 04:18 PM Post #33 |
Like I said before... I am perfect.
|
More like useful for ~42% of Part I and 20% of Part III vs. usable for ~73% of Part III. |
| Formerly Othin | |
|
|
|
| smash fanatic | Mar 1 2008, 06:27 PM Post #34 |
|
If Zihark was facing level 1 enemies while Mia was facing level 20 enemies, would Mia's performance still be "better" than Zihark's? If Zihark was the best fighter in the DB, and Mia was the worst fighter in the GMs, would Mia's performance still be better than Zihark's? That's about how ridiculous your argument is. They're facing different enemies, and their competition consists of different people. Zihark vs Mia, as well as most debates between two units in different teams, is NOT "Should I use unit A over unit B?", it's "should I use unit A, or not use unit A?" Zihark vs Mia is "Should I use Zihark in the DBs or not?" and "Should I use Mia in the GMs or not?". What do I get if I use Zihark in the first three parts? I get a unit with one of the team's best offense, and durability that's good compared to most of the team. What do I get if I use Mia in the first three parts? I get a unit with good offense, but below average durability. It doesn't matter if Ziharks' in slightly fewer chapters; huge rape in a bunch of chapters >>> small rape in a few more chapters. The crap about Zihark facing units better than him is a load of shit because there are more units in the GMs who beat Mia than there are that beat Zihark in the DB, and those that beat Zihark are never around for all of his chapters except for 1 or 2 of them at best, while almost all of those 10 or so units that beat Mia are always there to beat her. If you want to whine about Zihark stealing EXP from other teammates, Mia does the exact same thing. Are you familiar with the FE9 Titania argument? |
|
| |
|
|
|
| Blackbird | Mar 1 2008, 10:45 PM Post #35 |
|
"If Zihark was facing level 1 enemies while Mia was facing level 20 enemies, would Mia's performance still be "better" than Zihark's?" Yes. A character that is capable of defeating more difficult enemies is better than one that can only defeat weaker ones. However, if you really want to make this argument, it's in Mia's favor, because she fights consistently more difficult enemies in 3, and Mia is better at killing the same enemies than Zihark is in Part 4. "If Zihark was the best fighter in the DB, and Mia was the worst fighter in the GMs, would Mia's performance still be better than Zihark's?" No. But Zihark isn't the best fighter in the DB, and Mia isn't the worst fighter in the GMs. This is irrelevant. "What do I get if I use Mia in the first three parts? I get a unit with good offense, but below average durability." Except Mia's durability is better than Zihark's in some ways. Reiterating myself again, she has more HPs, better defense, easy bonus exp utilization, and dodge that is almost as good as Zihark's. If Mia's durability is "below average" than Zihark's is also below average. "That's about how ridiculous your argument is. They're facing different enemies, and their competition consists of different people." Yes, but they do eventually coexist on the same team, and compete with each other for a potential spot in the final mission. A direct comparison between them is valid at that point, and for Part 4, Mia is better. "It doesn't matter if Ziharks' in slightly fewer chapters; huge rape in a bunch of chapters >>> small rape in a few more chapters." Except it's not "slightly fewer chapters." There is a rather large availability gap between them. Mia's available for the majority of Part 3, which is the longest Part of the game. Zihark is available for less than half of Part 1, and 2 chapters in Part 3. Mia exists for almost twice as many chapters as Zihark before Part 4. Because Mia exists for several more chapters, she also has more opportunity to level, so she will be superior going in to Part 4. It's actually kind of similar to Marcus. Yeah, he's hax early on, but you don't want to use him too much because eventually other units will exceed him in the latter half of the game. "If you want to whine about Zihark stealing EXP from other teammates, Mia does the exact same thing" No. Zihark is overleveled for Part 1. He gets perhaps 10-15exp a kill, to Micaiah/Aran/Ed/Nolan/Jill/Ilyana's 30-50 or so. Any of these units gains up to -5- levels to Zihark's 1. Making more of the team a lot more useful faster >>> making only one unit marginally better slowly. Mia, on the other hand, comes in on par level with the rest of the GM's. It doesn't matter if she only gets 30 exp a kill or so, when anyone else would get the same 30 exp out of the kill. Mia gets 1 level for every 1 level anyone else would get from the same kills. They level at the same rate. Furthermore, the majority of your units are already good/useful, so you can afford to level them evenly. |
|
|
|
| smash fanatic | Mar 2 2008, 02:05 AM Post #36 |
|
Which doesn't matter at all becuase Mia's not fighting Zihark's enemies, and Zihark's not fighting Mia's enemies.
Quit dodging the point. Zihark is the third or so best DB unit. Mia's the 10th or so best GM. Zihark's helping me beat the game more than Mia is.
Yes, IN PART 4 WHICH DOES NOT AFFECT HOW THEY ARE PERFORMING IN THE FIRST THREE PARTS.
... no, Zihark's available in 8 chapters (1-6 is long enough to count as 2), and Mia's available in 10. Also consider the fact that two of the three DB chapters in part 3 are laguz, which give a lot of EXP, and the fact that Mia's competing with a lot more GMs who are good, compared to about half the DBs being trash.
No, a more accurate unit would be Seth or Titania. Start off h4x, end up good. And who's surpassing him besides Nolan? I'll help you here, to show you how wrong you are. Here are Zihark and Edward's stats entering 3-13. 13 Zihark, A Nolan, Silver Blade 36.5 atk, 30.0 AS, 134.0 hit, 24.5 crit - - 120.0 avo, 35.5 hp, 15.5 def, 14.5 res, 15.0 critavo Killing Edge 28.5 atk, 30.0 AS, 159.0 hit, 54.5 crit Brave Sword 29.5 atk, 30.0 AS, 164.0 hit, 24.5 crit 8 Edward, A Nolan, Caladbolg 36.8 atk, 25.2 AS, 171.6 hit, 27.5 crit - - 100.9 avo, 38.0 hp, 16.1 def, 8.6 res, 19.5 critavo Killing Edge 29.8 atk, 25.2 AS, 163.6 hit, 52.5 crit - - 92.9 avo, 38.0 hp, 16.1 def, 8.6 res, 19.5 critavo Brave Sword 30.8 atk, 25.2 AS, 168.6 hit, 22.5 crit - - 92.9 avo, 38.0 hp, 16.1 def, 8.6 res, 19.5 critavo The laguz have about 150 hit, so Zihark faces about 30 (18 real) and Edward faces about 50, more if he's not using Caladbolg. ...also, this map is an earth affinity, so Zihark gets +5 avo/hit. Make that 25 hit (12.5 real). Edward gets hit more than four times as often, and only wins att by 1. He even has trouble doubling the cats, who have 22 AS. Also, Nolan does worse on Edward's team because Zihark's 22 avo >> Edward's 2 def. wtfmassiveraep. Edward can't even think of passing Zihark until part 4, and I hope you have the common sense to realize that's not justifying Edward being used over Zihark.
Zihark gets kills, and levels up two or three times. Edward gets kills, and levels up five or six times. Zihark is still better. And... unpromoted units aren't getting 50 exp a kill. lol. The enemy would have to be about level 10 2nd tier for that. Hell, you even got mixed up in the Seth EXP argument for the FE8 tier list, and it looked like you conceded, so what's the matter now? |
|
| |
|
|
|
| Twilight Reaper | Feb 9 2009, 04:22 PM Post #37 |
|
Well I did level up Zihark up to level 20 in PoR. He did cap, Str, Spd, Skil and also defense which I was quite surprised about. I transferred the data to FE10, and Zihark is awesome. He was very useful unit, especially in FE10 hard mode. |
|
|
|
| Zero Chaos | May 27 2009, 09:11 PM Post #38 |
|
Zihark is basically the only Swordmaster I ever use. Edward just starts out as crap, and when you're playing on Hard Mode, you don't have enough experience points to level him up so much. I play on Hard Mode basically every time, so I don't have the patience or experience points to give to Edward. For me, I just use him as a decoy and he usually dies in the first part. Lucia is decent, but she fights very few battles and has almost no time for leveling up. I see no point in bothering to level her up, since there are very few battles that she fights in. She gets kidnapped and then you have to wait until the last part to use her, and then she's still a mid-level Swordmaster. If anybody is to be any use by that time, they need to be on their last class. Stefan... unless you take him to the final battle, he's absolutely useless. I think that this is pretty straight forward and doesn't need much explaining. And finally the battle between Zihark and Mia. Mia is good, yes, but the problem is the allies surrounding her. She has Soren (who I always bring with me 'till the end), Rhys (who I also use quite often), Ike (who is just a pain in my opinion), Titania (beast), Oscar (level him just a little and he's like Titania), and I think you guys know where this is going. I like leveling those guys, especially Soren. I don't have the experience points on Hard Mode to share between Mia and the others in the Greil Mercenaries. I have mny more units to worry about leveling. When you get Zihark, your good allies are Sothe (since he starts out at a high level), Tauroneo (who you don't use very much in the first part anyway), Black Knight (who only shares one battle with Zihark, but I never use the Black Knight in the Endgame of part one anyway), and maybe a tiny bit of Micaiah. Face it, Zihark's team is crap. You have to worry about saving (if you try to get though the game without letting anyone die) Meg, Nolan, Laura, Ilyana, Edward, Leonardo, Jill, Aran, and I may be missing more. The point is, Zihark is one of the only good units in Micaiah's army. Now add Volug for Support with that. Once they get into an "A" support, they get a +45 avoid. Since I like Volug, as long as I keep them together, they never get hit. They both have pretty good Speed as it is, and with that bonus, I can't say no. Mia can't get that kind of support bonus. To me, Mia is useful for maybe the first two chapters of Part 3, then I never even touch her. Zihark, on the other hand, has quite a few battles that he needs to fight. He starts out good as well, so that gives it a nice boost. Another thing I love about Zihark is that he has a free Adept, while Mia has a free Vantge. For these two units, it will usually take two hits or more to kill an enemy, so unless Mia is a Trueblade and has Astra and gets that lucky combo with Vantage and Astra together (or possibly a critical hit) when an enemy attacks, it's almost a useless skill for her. With Zihark, though, it often will take three hits to kill and enemy, or if it does take two, you can have Adept to kill an enemy without having the enemy deal damage to you if you get Adept at the first strike for an enemy. I think I made a pretty good point on why I feel that Zihark is clearly the better Trueblade, but I know that I can't change the love for Mia in some people, so it's hardly worth the effort. This battle between the Trueblades gets hectic with some people... don't know if I want to be in it. |
|
|
|
| kirsche | May 29 2009, 11:12 AM Post #39 |
|
Who has fail speed, pathetic durability and even bad mobility. Mia >>>>>>> Soren. Easily.
Rhys has the same problems as Soren except that he gets ORKO'ed. Fail.
Ike is one of Mia's main competition for awesomeness.
Only in speed, but he has low concrete durability and his Atk is poor.
Doesn't change the fact that he rocks.
Why? Exp hogging doesn't exist. Thus, using tauroneo would be silly. Taur >>> Zihark upon joining anyway.
Why would you NOT? You get Lehran from bringing him into endgame and he helps make teh arguably hardest chapter in the game easy.
Aran doesn't need saving. Neither does Zihark or Jill. The otehrs you shouldn't really be using.
You missed the Laguz emancipation army, whom are pwnage. You also forgot nailah. Whom is much, much better than Zihark.
Volug >>> Zihark also. Mia CAN however, get an Atk bonus from anybody, which is quite nice as SM's generally have low Atk. |
|
|
|
| Zero Chaos | Jun 16 2009, 07:56 PM Post #40 |
|
True, Mia may be able to beat Soren in battle, but I like having someone who can attack and heal, go into the front lines without dying, and being able to reach long and short range freely with any magic weapon. I like having a few strong mages around, more than just Swordsmen, Axe users, and lancers.
Again, I like a few strong mages around... and he's a helpful staff user in the beginning and middle of part 3
Either way, if you still level him he's pretty darn good.
That has nothing to do with Zihark's strength...
For one thing, you can't use Tauroneo in about half of the chapters in Part 1 prior to when you get him, thus, you need someone else that's strong and can hold off and kill a pack of enemies without a problem. And also, in hard mode exp hogging does kinda exist. You can only get very few characters strong and they have to start out fairly strong to get anywhere.
I can hardly say that the last chapter of the game is anywhere close to the hardest. Bring the Laguz kings and queens with you, plus who you got good throughout the game, and that chapter can be beaten in three or 4 turns if you really try. Remember that there's also no battle saves in Hard Mode, so I have to say that I don't have the guts to put Ike up against the BK and his Eclipse in part 3 where you have to fight him. If he uses Eclipse, you're done. Plus, Lehran doesn't make that chapter that much easier.
On Hard Mode, Aran doe shave a hard time making it through. He starts off at a crap level, and it's extremely difficult to bring him up. For Jill, I really hope you're kidding. Jill starts out as absolute crap and is probably one of the most annoying units to level up when your experience points are very limited. I barely even use her one Easy and Normal mode.
May I add that the Laguz emancipation army only shares 3 chapters with Micaiah's Army? And yes, Nailah is much better than Zihark, but also remember that she shares 2 chapters with Micaiah's army. You need good units other than those guys to get through part 1 and Micaiah's battles in Part 3.
Volug is probably the only useful unit in Micaiah's army that I can think of which can actually defend himself without a problem other than Zihark that stays with Micaiah's army until Ashera's judgment. Now those two teamed up are pwnage. Together, they can easily take on Mia and anyone that joins her for support. Very easily. Think about it, would you rather go into battle and be able to dodge almost any move and kill the opponent fairly quickly, or go in and get hit with some heavy blows, then kill your opponent with one or two strikes and die after getting hit too many times? Edited by Zero Chaos, Jun 16 2009, 07:57 PM.
|
|
|
|
| FE_King_42 | Aug 19 2009, 12:37 PM Post #41 |
|
Zihark= Epic in PoR, Zihark= Epic FAil! in RD. Edward and Mia both kick his butt anyday |
| Life is short, play better videogames: Fire Emblem | |
|
|
|
| Sentenal | Aug 19 2009, 04:29 PM Post #42 |
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
|
Zihark is just "okay" in PoR, how is he "epic"? |
| |
|
|
|
| +Ema Skye | Aug 19 2009, 10:36 PM Post #43 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
|
It's actually the total opposite, roflmao... |
 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
| |
|
|
|
| Renegade | Oct 16 2009, 11:54 PM Post #44 |
:D
|
Agreed |
    Hm, no wonder my machine runs like shit. Four operating systems... | |
|
|
|
| -HJ- | Oct 18 2009, 04:26 PM Post #45 |
I've failed to come up with something witty, so I hope you will enjoy this filler text instead.
|
FE King was that guy who randomly bumped various FE topics with completely ridiculous posts. I loved it. I wish he'd return. |
| |
|
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Fire Emblem 9-11 · Next Topic » |
10:32 AM Nov 23
