How To Debate

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How To Debate
Topic Started: Mar 1 2008, 07:07 AM (215 Views)
Laharl	Mar 1 2008, 07:07 AM Post #1
Narcissistic Bastard With A Hint Of Mental Insanity Or Mentally Insane With A Hint Of Narcissism Posts: 4,442 Group: Veteran Member #264 Joined: June 28, 2005	I'm thinking about getting into this debate stuff since it looks fun but I need to know some things. Like how to you figure out growths and things like that? Do you play the game or is there some website that has all that information because I don't feel like starting a new game just for that. Also, this topic can be used by elite FE debaters to give some help to the lesser experienced members of FEFF.



Mekkah	Mar 1 2008, 07:29 AM Post #2
Posts: 667 Group: FEFFer Member #1,400 Joined: July 24, 2007	Serene's Forest - http://www.serenesforest.net/ is the best resource you can wish for for about any Fire Emblem game. It gives all static data, hints, tricks and mechanics you can wish for. FEA - http://fea.fewiki.net/ is where you get the stats for people at certain levels. This site calculates their average stats at whichever level using a very good mathmatic method taking all possibilities and caps into account (as opposed to the simple base + (growthlevel)method). From there you abide by some laws of debating: nothing but stats are true by default and even those can be argued away from if you arguments are proper. If it's about Sacred Stones and you have Syrene while your opponent has Seth, yet you can argue that Syrene is better while your opponent spouts bullshit, you should be winning. Other tips are finding the balance between addressing all your opponent's points and avoiding a 10-page essay (trust me on this one). Don't throw in a very weak argument for the sake of having something to say - quality is better than quantity. Don't repeat points all the time either. Here's something beginners fall for all the time: comparisons within class. Don't do that. By that I mean: Well, Lowen is outclassed as a Paladin by Kent and Sain, but Canas is the only Druid you get, so that's a point for him.* The only time something works like that (imo) is stave units vs fighting units. However, the purpose of Druids, Sages, Paladins, Heroes and whatever is all to fight enemies. How well they do that can be compared with statistics and samples - just because they use different weapons to do does not make them different. If Lowen is better at fightning than Canas is, the fact that he's a Shaman does not change that. Avoid "he has good Defense for a Bishop"-like arguments as well. Who cares about what his class is in a situation like this? His Defense sucks compared to his opponent, and that's what matters. Avoid "why use unit x when you can use unit y" when arguing for unit z, like in Lute vs Franz, the fact that Seth > Franz (if it were true) while Lute > Saleh does not aid Lute in any way. Because if Seth > Franz but Franz > Lute then it follows that Seth > Lute as well. Lute isn't relatively off better in any way. The key to debating is skewing things into your favor without making it look like that.



szh	Mar 1 2008, 10:46 AM Post #3
Posts: 45 Group: FEFFer Member #1,709 Joined: February 16, 2008	Thanks Mekkah, this seems really useful. Though I already use both website I also want to ask, however, when you know debaters post stats and stuff in their arguments, how are those derived? I'm guessing that basically all I need are: Avoid: (Attack Speed x 2) + Luck stat + Support bonus + Terrain bonus Defence: Defence stat + Support bonus + Terrain bonus Attack Strength: Strength stat + [(Weapon might + Weapon triangle bonus) x Effective coefficient] + Support bonus Damage: (Attack - enemy Defence) x Critical coefficient Accuracy or Hit: Weapon Hit + (Skill x 2) + (Luck / 2) + Support bonus + Weapon triangle bonus + S Rank bonus Critical rate: Weapon Critical + (Skill / 2) + Support bonus + Critical bonus + S Rank bonus Critevade: Luck + Support bonus Wholly c/ped from Serenes Forest Do I use these to calculate? Seems tedious...once a debate accepting noobs like me is up, I'll have to program something up so I can throw the stats in and numbers will come out EDIT: @Edge: Wait, aren't you a debater?



Mekkah	Mar 1 2008, 11:39 AM Post #4
Posts: 667 Group: FEFFer Member #1,400 Joined: July 24, 2007	Reikken has this awesome little tool that converts raw stats to battle stats, here: http://reikken.awardspace.com/FE678Statulator.php I have one as well, here (needs mIRC): http://z11.invisionfree.com/Fire_Emblem_Fu...showtopic=13546



Laharl	Mar 2 2008, 01:43 AM Post #5
Narcissistic Bastard With A Hint Of Mental Insanity Or Mentally Insane With A Hint Of Narcissism Posts: 4,442 Group: Veteran Member #264 Joined: June 28, 2005	Thanks Mekkah. szh @Edge: Wait, aren't you a debater? No, not really.



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