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| Tier List | |
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| Topic Started: Mar 28 2008, 08:41 PM (4,862 Views) | |
| Barst | Mar 30 2008, 06:53 AM Post #16 |
Like I said before... I am perfect.
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It's really between being able to one-round 35 enemies if you get Beastfoe and being able to one-round 10 enemies if you get Beastfoe. 
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| Paperblade | Mar 30 2008, 04:07 PM Post #17 |
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If 30 Speed isn't doubling enemies in 4-4. I want to know what is (actually, it'll probably be more like 32-34 Speed, because if you plan to use her, she can easily get a couple levels in the DB chapters and her growths are wtfinsane). She only tinks Generals, but she doubles everything but Swordmasters (which have liek 30 Speed). With S Rank Strike she 2-3 rounds everything and gains ridiculous EXP because she's so low level'd, and her growths are freaking insane (highest growth total in the game wtfhax). With like 14 regular levels and 3BEXP levels she's already capped everything but HP and Luck, that's insane, since everyone below her needs so much more to be half as hax as a baby'd Vika, and not using them, the 600BEXP she gets in 1-8 >>> Not doing anything ever. Think about it this way. We can give Pelleas like 10 levels, and then tell him to STFU and heal with his B in Staves, or we can give Vika like 13 levels and have her wtfrape everything in sight. With Flying. And Canto. Or we can not use Pelleas and Vika's utility in Part 1 beats him. Also, in 1-8, she's the only person that can save the Civilians on the right side of the map. That's 600BEXP that only she can get. 600BEXP >>>>>>>>> Bringing the team down with your suck and fail And why does Aran want Nolan if Nolan is gonna drop him for the +15 Avoid? Aran doesn't really need the Avoid because his Defense is so high (and his Avoid kinda sucks anyway) and there's like, 10 Magic users in all the DB chapters put together. Laura/Aran and waiting the extra chapter or so for Nolan/Zihark is probably more helpful to the team overall, since the less likely Laura is to being instagibbed, the better (15 Avoid and 2 Defense for her is great, and 15 Avoid/2 Defense for Aran that he'll actually get to keep because Wind phails so Laura isn't gonna be liek "bai aran gotta go support Earth so that Zihark's avoid isn't raping me in durability" and then leave him with no Support. 10 kills for 3-6 isn't enough? There's only like 40 possible because of the cap. What are Volug/Aran/Jill/Sothe going to do while Nolan and Zihark are trying to get kills? Sit on their asses? 10 kills in 3-6 is enough, and by 3-13, Zihark has the Tempest Blade and there's another Storm Sword on sale, so that's about 25 kills for a Defend chapter. Plus, Zihark doesn't even NEED Beastfoe to rape Laguz. With a Steel Blade he's got like 31-32 Attack, which means he 2 rounds Tigers (1 round if he Crits or double Adepts or Adept+Crits) and Cats (1 round if he Crits or Adepts). ~50% one round on Cats >>>>> What pretty much everyone else is doing except for Beastkiller Sothe and Volug, but Sothe's third tier sucks (only having 3-4 more Strength than Sages is fail) and Volug's offense isn't as wtfhax in Part 1 and he has no 2 range. Well, and the BK, but screw him. And then there's the fact that Zihark's doubling everything forever and Nolan struggles until 3-12, which is the first map where he's actually doubling things that aren't Armors, but his doubling is still iffy (he needs to be about 20/8 to double Halbs and Warriors), but Zihark is still probably winning because Crit/Adept and doubling even Swordmasters. Plus, Alondite is 1-2 range, which makes Zihark better in 4-E-4 because he'll counter Spirits, and having a Speed cap of 40 and a 75% Speed growth means he can actually double Auras without needing Nasir, which is fairly w1n. Dragonfoe+Alondite has like 56 Might (+ Zihark's ~27 Strength to make like 83 attack), so Zihark can still be as uber as DragonfoeCrossbows, and Astra/Crit/Adept actually gives him a shot at not even taking a counter. Zihark has liek 151 Avoid as a Level 6 Trueblade with an A Earth support, by the way. Most enemies in 4-E-1/2 have ~155-160 Hit at most (the Double Bow Sniper actually has 183, but fuck him), and Swordmasters/Bishops have ~165, so good luck getting over that. lolwut, 15% displayed just to get HIT? 4.65% actual just to get hit. At Worst Biorhythm vs. An enemy with Best, that's a 24.65% chance to get hit. Against Swordmasters and Bishops. Swordmasters 3HKO, and Bishops 4HKO. Zihark is 3HKO'd by Swordmasters, and they less than a 5% chance to hit him on average. Actually, wait, that's not factoring in Vague Katti if he's using it. With the Vague Katti, he's 4HKO'd with <5% hit on average. And one rounds them back (which he . wtfhax. Nolan takes an extra hit on average but doesn't OHKO, and has similar Avoid (disregarding the WTA, which would give Zihark a huge advantage vs. Axe+Sword Users, seeing as 15% displayed to 25% displayed is about a 8% increase, meaning it goes from 4.65% to 12.75% chance to get hit, so Zihark still wins durability since he's being hit about a third of the time against those 2, and there's like no Bow users and maybe like 2 Sages plus the Bishop reinforcements). He's also invincible to Axe users. 0% Hit even with worst Biorhythm. |
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| Exxucus | Mar 30 2008, 06:41 PM Post #18 |
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I see how Vika is better statistically than I originally believed, but her being availible for only 5 out of 40+ chapters is pretty bad. Plus in the DB chapters, you shouldn't be using her, instead you should be using people who are with the DB in part III, since they'll be struggling to keep their heads above water until someone gets to third tier, preferably someone with solid defences, and doesn't rely on dodging, since the enemies in the DB P III chapters are quite strong, and have good hit, Mt, and def. You still haven't said how Pelleas is worse than Lucia. Spirits will bounce off him, and he can take hits from the powerful magic users, like Leikan, Lehran, and Ashera. Lucia, on the other hand, will be clinking the disciples, getting raped by their huge stats, and failing at life in general. The spirts can attack her without fear of retaliation, since she's a sword user, and Zihark will be getting the Alondite. She will be unable to attack Leikan, suck against Levail, get pwn'd by dragons, killed by Dhegensea, lolowned by Lehran, and barely scratch Ashera. Pwning endgame > having one chapter of jeigan-ness in P II, and phailing endgame. |
 My uber map.
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| smash fanatic | Mar 31 2008, 01:24 AM Post #19 |
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Vika has a period of time where she's actually very useful, and everyone in Lower Middle does not. That's already a huge advantage for her, but should you decide to train her, you get a pretty strong unit. How many units below her have the first advantage, and the second perk? I'll tell you. None of them.
You're overrating Pelleas' performance in endgame. He has to actually get to that level first, which unfortunately for him, I'd rather invest into DB units, as they are going to be a similar or higher level than him, and have supports established, and start and end up better than him (most of them do anyway). On the other hand, one of the advantages of being good at a certain point of time without being trained is that the unit can be thrown into the team as a filler unit in almost any given playthrough. In Lucia's case, you can use her in 2-2 in almost every playthrough and she can build up usefulness like that, and you can simply drop her for the rest of the game. To get to the point where Pelleas beats out Lucia, you have to endure several chapters of suck, and he won't even become great unless you dump a lot of favoritism on him, which will only hamper the team due to all the resources that are consumed. |
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| scotu | Mar 31 2008, 01:22 PM Post #20 |
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Not to mention Lucia has the most wtfh4x avo in the game. Period. |
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| Davidof | Mar 31 2008, 01:39 PM Post #21 |
Dutchie
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Doesnt Earth-supported Naesela tie her? I seem to remember someone running the calcs and coming out equal. |
Previously known as: Serra, Hakato, Hakado, Dorgie Poo, Pearl Fey, Kallen and Sailor Moon  HakaDSie>Kovutachi
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| Paperblade | Mar 31 2008, 06:12 PM Post #22 |
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At max level. . . Ulki with an A Earth support has about 170.7 Avoid, Lucia will have about 166.5 (which is 1.2 better than Zihark due to slightly higher Luck and 6.5 better than Nolan because his Speed cap is meh). Volug will also get about the same (technically slightly better), at Level 40 with Earth he should have 166.6 Avoid transformed, and 130.6 when untransformed. Naesala with an A support will get 172.1, which is the highest, and he also benefits the most from Resolve, so no one can beat him even there (he gets 222.1 Avoid when Resolve'd, wtfhax). So while Lucia doesn't have the most h4x Avoid, she's certainly up there, since 160+ Avoid is still easily for her since her Luck is high because of the base (30% growth is rather meh, she's losing like 3 Avoid) and losing 1-2 Speed still gives her somewhat better than Zihark with superior Res and about 2-3 less Defense. So yes, Lucia is also pretty good if you give her those 15 or so levels, and probably worth more than another healer, especially since Archsage speed caps sux. |
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| scotu | Mar 31 2008, 08:21 PM Post #23 |
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That was me that originally compared those on FEP. They do Tie. @ Paperblade, i was only talking about w/ max applicable stats and an earth support. |
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| Fireman | Mar 31 2008, 09:00 PM Post #24 |
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I think Volke should be listed higher... yes he does com very very very late but if you data transfer, he comes out with maxed strength, skill and speed  he's also the only one who has that infamous instant kill ability (goddamnit y doesn't sothe have this?) and his low luck doesn't really matter as his stillness would have other units attacked than him |
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| scotu | Apr 1 2008, 01:29 AM Post #25 |
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Volke is pretty amazing. He's got one hell of a crit rate and lethality. his spd, skl, and str match that of trueblades, but he has more def & res, and less luck. Unfortunately, he usually won't keep Stillness because a) he doesn't want it, he wants stuff to attack him and
 Micaiah and Sanaki both want it badly.Volke also makes great use of adept and vantage. Only downfalls are that his weapons are (just barely) sub par to that of other classes, he competes for good weapons agaisnt sothe, who also wants them, and his availability is pretty terrible. |
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| Kaethode | Apr 14 2008, 09:13 AM Post #26 |
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How is someone like boyd ranked so low while others that may not be as good rank above him? |
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| Barst | Apr 14 2008, 03:12 PM Post #27 |
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Like I said before... I am perfect.
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because they are as good |
| Formerly Othin | |
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| Kaethode | Apr 14 2008, 08:16 PM Post #28 |
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Last time i checked, Boyd > Zihark, unless this tier list means something else. But, the point I'm trying to make is that Boyd shouldn't be that low in the tier list. |
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| smash fanatic | Apr 15 2008, 06:31 AM Post #29 |
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Boyd is pretty unimpressive when he first joins due to near-zero doubling ability (meaning mediocre offense) and pretty average durability (HP is above average, def is average, avo is below average). He actually doesn't start doubling reliably until he promotes, and then he starts doubling, and then he starts having problems again in 4-E. His durability gets better though, but that's not enough to save him. Below average start + doesn't get very good until promotion + has doubling problems in 4-E = mediocre unit. Also... how the hell would Boyd be ranked above Zihark? Boyd's not even better than Zihark in part 4, and Zihark just rapes him in usefulness for the other 3 parts (well, 2, since neither exist in part 2). |
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| Kaethode | Apr 15 2008, 11:11 AM Post #30 |
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Many characters in Ike's team come unimpressive. Since Ike's chapters are the easiest, it doesn't take much effort to give them the levels a character needs to get going, such as Boyd. Even Nolan doesn't start two hitting reliably until his later levels, so Boyd isn't much different. If you bothered to level Boyd, he can basically two hit anything with a steel axe until you reach 4-E. And as far as I saw, Boyd didn't have that many troubles in 4-E. A lot of good units need a few good levels to get them going. But, if Boyd's mediocre start brings him down that much, I'm surprised that a few are higher than they are supposed to be. The only reason Boyd is better than Zihark is that he can two hit like Zihark, and has the Str, HP, Def to back it up, because swordmasters aren't the avoidability whores they used to be. Also, Zihark was very useful when he was hitting double 10's to that General. And no, I'm not talking about easy mode. But hey, It's my opinion on who's better, I'm just trying to get Boyd a little higher on the list. Boyd did happen to max the necessary stats very quickly with like 10 or so BEXP level ups to Def, Res, Luk. |
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