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| Tier List | |
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| Topic Started: Mar 28 2008, 08:41 PM (4,867 Views) | |
| smash fanatic | Apr 17 2008, 12:17 PM Post #31 |
 
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Such as?
Difficulty of the chapters have nothing to do with it. Boyd is worse than about half of the GMs. Period.
Boyd's problem isn't att. It's spd and early part 3 durability.
Most of the units above him start off better, or they reach the "good" status earlier.
Thsi doesn't matter until part 4 since they can't be directly compared, so Boyd having more str, HP, and def than Zihark means nothing during that time. Yes, Boyd's probably better than Zihark in part 4. So what? Part 4 isn't the only part of the game that matters. Zihark being one of your best units in the DB >>>>> Boyd being a mediocre GM.
Zihark's 45 avoid from supports would like to have a word with you.
He was more useful than Boyd not doubling anything until he promoted.
You'll need to tell me exactly where you think he should move up. We don't move a unit to a random spot. |
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| Kaethode | Apr 17 2008, 06:23 PM Post #32 |
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Soren, for one. He was slow and powerful and turned out to be a great asset to the team, like Boyd. The mounted units also needed a few levels to get them two hitting.
First off, what are GMs? Secondly, Boyd isn't that bad. He's just quite.. mediocre at the start. Finally, difficulty of chapter usually helps the character level. Just throwing it out there.
I'll admit that his speed is a problem. Other than Swordmasters and other units with good speed base, most units have this problem. Early part III is where he started off, so I'm not surprised.
So start-off stats are most of what makes the tier list? And as far as i saw, Boyd reached good status pretty quickly.
So again, start-off stats or a little after start-off are what you base this tier list on?
Part 4, is however, kinda difficult (meaning Zihark/Boyd based on individually). Also, Part 4 is where i did contrast them so.. yeah. I did contrast them on their final stats, though. In usefulness, they were both pretty useful, but not way more useful than the other. DB/GM are terms I'm not familiar about so i won't address them.
I didn't mention supports in any of my arguments. I thought the tier list was built on individuals, stats, and usefulness.
The only point i was trying to make was Boyd double hit Generals and did quite a number. Nontheless, he could double hit other units, too. (obviously not swordmasters, but realistically, he did double hit some units)
With all these claims I'm making, it sounds like i want him to have some "Boyd tier" or something, which i don't. But, middle tier is insulting. Something like higher "Upper Tier" or low "High Tier", would've avoided my complaints. |
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| Hatake Asuka | Apr 19 2008, 05:33 AM Post #33 |
Gakutorishiusu
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DB = Dawn Brigade. GM = Greil Mercenaries. |
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| smash fanatic | Apr 25 2008, 08:55 AM Post #34 |
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Titania and Oscar do not have trouble doubling the majority of the enemies. Haar is a bit slow, but he has w1n durability and mobility anyway.
He starts off mediocre when many other good units don't, and then he gets pretty good after he promotes, and then starts running into spd problems again once 4-E comes around.
So what?
Very few units ranked above him have this same problem.
Strawman, etc.
Dude, he doesn't become good until after promotion. That's about 10 chapters after he joins. That's not "pretty quickly."
... so?
... and I'm telling you that part 4 isn't the only part of the game that matters (if even that; I'm not sure if Boyd even wins part 4 overall due to doubling issues in 4-E).
wtfno. Zihark has one of the DB's best offense for the entire time he exists, and his durability becomes pretty good with supports. He's one of the best DBs. Boyd isn't touching that, unless you want to argue that he is one of the best GMs in part 3.
Supports exist, and they are helping other units on the team, and also help the units being debated. There's no reason not to include supports for most units.
Either your Boyd was spd blessed, or he was a higher level than normal, or you're only talking about 3-11 to 4-3/4/5.
You're not making a convicning argument for Boyd to move up. |
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| Paperblade | May 5 2008, 10:46 PM Post #35 |
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Hm, the more I think about it, the more I want to say Geo down and Ranulf up. Ranulf has like 35 attack and 30 Speed transformed when he joins, which is pretty pwn, and since Kyza/Lyre/Lethe/Mordecai are kinda bad, he can also take Quickclaw or Howl. Plus, he's forced in a good number of Part 3 chapters, so he's technically not even taking up a slot. Geo has like no availability, he's in like 4 chapters before Endgame, and I'm not sure if he's doing well enough in those chapters to compensate for Kieran being in 3 extra chapters (3-11, 3-F, and 4-P/1/2 depending on which group he goes with). I'll admit that Wishblade pwns, and a 9 Move/Canto using Wishblade user just wrecks everything, but Geo's Speed is ass (27 at 20/10? And no BEXP potential until about 5 levels later? gtfo my sight), and at least Kieran has Hammer/Wyrmslayer for pwning Generals and Dragons, while Geo's just failing (I think he has like 60 attack with the Wishblade and Supports, which isn't enough to one round Dragons in most cases) |
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | May 6 2008, 02:52 PM Post #36 |
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lol wow... I don't know where to begin. |
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| Paperblade | May 6 2008, 11:48 PM Post #37 |
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I have no idea if this is a good or a bad thing. 
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| Kaethode | May 7 2008, 01:56 AM Post #38 |
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Oh yeah, he was totally speed blessed.
So levels.
Some units do have problems with speed though.
Maybe Boyd gained speed every level, y'know. But, I didn't specify "10 chapters", I said pretty quickly.
So pwn.
I saw Zihark/Tauroneo as the DB Marcus'.
I suppose so.
I still don't see why Boyd is classified with Kieran, Tormod, Ilyana, and Geoffrey, some of the characters i thought were horrible to use. AND, he's below Mordecai. Might as well put him into a lower tier, eh? |
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| smash fanatic | May 7 2008, 05:37 AM Post #39 |
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Yeah, you have a point. Ranulf to Upper Mid, though I don't know where. Above Naesala/below Heather, maybe?
Kieran's kinda sucky himself (similar spd problems). As for how much better Geoffrey is than Kieran in the CRK chapters... Geoffrey has 3 more str and 9 more hit (sorta matters in a game where enemies have avo), and Kieran has 4 more HP. Whether or not Geof's leads can make up for Kieran's extra chapters is up to debate. I don't feel like debating it, but I will say this: I feel the two should be next to each other on the tier list.
We usualyl only deal with averages, so this more or less kills your point.
Okay? What about them?
Like who?
Yes, because I know exactly wtf you're talking about. How about you elaborate?
What's your point?
They're horrible if you look at just part 4 and not the game as a whole.
No, Boyd is fine where he is. |
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| Kaethode | May 8 2008, 01:40 AM Post #40 |
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Boyd gained them easily. I thought that was kind of obvious.
I played through it a couple of times, and boyd turned out fine with each try.
Aran, Mordecai, Brom, Tauroneo, and Soren. I don't know if i missed any. I don't care if they make it up with defense or whatever, they just have speed problems.
Boyd and Zihark both did pretty well but Boyd had more damage output.
Like all the other promoted units, they killed enemies and gained a very small amount of exp.
I don't think i looked at only part 4 for this one.
Boyd happened to be one of my best axe users (aside from Haar or.. Nolan). One more point, I thought Rafiel (the walking bird) was pretty pwn. |
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Brawl FC: 2578-2866-4927 | |
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| Barst | May 8 2008, 05:49 AM Post #41 |
Like I said before... I am perfect.
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http://www.feplanet.net/index.php?fep=game.../averages&id=49 That is Boyd's stats. Your luck with him is irrelevant, regardless of its consistency. It should not happen, and has no place in arguments. Also...
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| smash fanatic | May 8 2008, 06:41 AM Post #42 |
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...okay? He still has mediocre offense until promotion.
...okay? So what? Are you saying they're worse than Boyd?
Considering your Boyds have been RNG blessed (or so I assume), I can take this statement with a grain of salt.
So?
You're obviously lying, or you have no idea how to rank usefulness (and therefore how to rank units on a tier list) at all. Kieran and Geoffrey have a period of time where they're the best units available. Tormod, Ilyana, and Mordy have a period of time where they're one of the best. And the best thing is that they do not have to go through any babying or training (like Boyd) to reach this period of pwn. This is clearly an advantage because I can simply use these units for the short period of time that they're pwning in almost every single playthrough and then discard them after they outlive their usefulness, and they're making themselves useful and helping me beat the game, which is obviously a good thing for those units. Boyd, on the other hand, has trouble doubling anything when he starts off and has mediocre durability. He doesn't become very good until promotion, and THEN he runs into spd issues again in 4-E. In other words, he slows me down first, so when he becomes good, he has to make up for how much he slowed me down before he has a net positive effect, and then he slows me down again towards the end. And because he does not have Kieran/Geoffrey/Tormod/etc.'s advantage of starting off good, I ALWAYS have to endure a period of mediocrity to reach his period where he performs well. If I ditch him before he promotes, all I get out of him is suck; not so with the other five units listed. So yes, it's pretty clear to me that Boyd and the other 5 are at worst close to each other on the tier list.
Averages say otherwise. |
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| smash fanatic | Jun 14 2008, 05:43 PM Post #43 |
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Anyway, to breath some new life into this topic, I'm going to suggest changes to my (and paperblade's) own tier list, mostly just the top two or three tiers. - Sothe down to top of High, or bottom of top. In a way, he's kinda like Marcus (who isn't ranked as the 6th best unit in the game), with a few differences. One, he doesn't remain the best fighter for more than a few chapters. He's debatable vs part 1 Volug (Volug has more move and HP, and Sothe has 2-range and I think more def/res), loses to Tauroneo in 1-6, loses to Muarim and probably Tormod in 1-7 and beyond, and then both Nailah and the BK in 1-F. However, he does take longer to slow down (he's still somewhat average in part 3, while Marcus is probably garbage once you hit midgame), and has thief utility, but I don't think that warrants him such a high spot. - Volug > Nolan, possibly? Nolan wins 1-1 to 1-4, but then Volug wins up until part 4 (1-f being debatable, since Nolan's promoted and Volug's still stuck with Wildheart), and sometimes wins by crushing amounts (such as 1-5 and 3-6). And Nolan isn't even *that* amazing in part 4 (his spd is good, but he could use more att). - Ranulf up, by I don't know how much, but his stats are certainly better than middle. |
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| Zorak | Jun 15 2008, 07:57 AM Post #44 |
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Just wondering, how is Gareth better than Sanaki? I know she's shit, but getting a blessed meteor and using it on the dragon chapter seems more useful than two extremely short chapters worth of blood tide. |
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| smash fanatic | Jun 15 2008, 07:06 PM Post #45 |
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Sanaki getting you a blessed meteor doesn't do anything for her worth. She's forced into 4-E, so whether you use her or not, you can get that blessed meteor. To get any use out of her, she has to actualyl use it, and she sucks so much that she can't even double dragons with it unless she gains tons of levels, which isn't good because she fails immensely at fighting, and babying a unit that bad isn't worth it. Gareth isn't much better, but he doesn't take much away from the team (pure water + wardwood + provoke on other units keeps him relatively safe, compared to a bunch of levels Sanaki needs as well as babying/walls she needs for every chapter up to 4-E-3) and he gives +5 str and skl, which is +5 or 10 damage to other units attacking stuff like auras and +10 hit, which actually matters here because enemies got pretty dodgy. |
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