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| SolidSense vs. smash_fanatic | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 9 2008, 11:26 AM (289 Views) | |
| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Jun 9 2008, 11:26 AM Post #1 |
 
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I'll open, 3 posts each, FE7, HHM. |
| this is the best Brawl match ever....EVER | |
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Jun 13 2008, 03:50 PM Post #2 |
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Fiora’s biggest advantage over Sain is that she flies, and he doesn’t. The ability to fly is an inherently useful characteristic to possess. If presented with the choice of a team with a flier or a team without a flier, the logical player is almost always going to choose the team with the flier. Fliers are the only units who can cross mountains, rivers, and long runs of forested area with any degree of proficiency. Even with small stretches of crossable terrain, fliers have the best mobility on your team by far, and that’s obviously useful. The situations in which the team with the flier is superior are numerous and varied. Plus, flying is something that only a handful of units in the whole game can do, and most of them are not likely to be used at all—Farina and Vaida are almost never in play, and Heath is in play sometimes but not usually. The only other flier who has a good shot at being on the team is Florina, but even this doesn’t really detract from Fiora’s worth as a flier. You see, one of the biggest shortcomings of flying is that, while going on “flying missions,” the flier is usually forced away from her supports. This is not true in Fiora’s case; when both Florina and Fiora are used, you can easily have a set of supported fliers for anything at all that you might need to do in the game. So, instead of downplaying Fiora’s ability to fly, Florina actually strengthens it, w1n. So Fiora already has a substantial victory over Sain before anything associated with combat is even considered. In addition to combat, Fiora has a useful function that only she and a few other units in the game can perform. Sain would have to win combat by a lot to be the winner overall , , , Well, let’s see. Sain is likely to emerge from LHM at level 9 or 10. From there, he has all of 3 chapters to gain levels before Fiora arrives, and he’s not guaranteed to be in one of them (Port of Badon), so let’s put him at level 11. With a 4-level lead and an advantage in supports, Sain is winning at this point. However, since Fiora grows faster and soon starts to build supports of her own, the gap rapidly diminishes. But Sain has one more little problem that he has to work around in this debate: promotion. You see, there are four good units vying for Knight Crests in this game—Oswin, Sain, Lowen, and Kent—but there are only three Knight Crests, and one of them comes fairly late. If you use any three of them together (and there’s a high chance of this since all four of them are good units), one of the three must promote significantly later than the rest of the cast. Even if Sain himself is not promoting late, his presence on the team forcing someone else (a unit just as good or arguably better) to promote late is just as bad as if he were the one promoting late, so that doesn’t actually matter. Alternately, you can use the Earth Seal, but in that case you can also chalk up an advantage in Funds for Fiora, which means that she gets to use Killers and Silvers more often. And this only applies when three are in play—with four in play, you not only have Funds to worry about, but someone will be promoting late regardless. So how do we handle this? Well, we could average out the times when anyone is promoting is late and no one is and then apply that to Sain, which would delay his promotion and give Fiora a considerable level lead. But we won’t do that right now. Let’s just consider what happens when Sain promotes normally, and you’re using only Kent and Sain. Obviously, if Sain can’t win under that circumstance, he can’t win under any other. 20/10 Fiora, A Florina/B Kent Iron Lance: 29.7 Atk, 21.5 AS, 31.8 Crit—41.4 HP, 14.4 Def, 22.0 Res, 60.6 Avo Killer Lance: 32.7 Atk, 20.5 AS, 61.8 Crit—41.4 HP, 14.4 Def, 22.0 Res, 58.6 Avo Javelin: 27.7 Atk, 18.5 AS, 31.8 Crit—41.4 HP, 14.4 Def, 22.0 Res, 54.6 Avo Silver Lance: 36.7 Atk, 19.5 AS, 31.8 Crit—41.4 HP, 14.4 Def, 22.0 Res, 56.6 Avo 20/10 Sain, A Kent/B Serra Iron Axe: 36.7 Atk, 18.2 AS, 24.4 Crit—43.4 HP, 15.6 Def, 8.6 Res, 62.2 Avo Killer Axe: 39.7 Atk, 18.2 AS, 54.4 Crit—43.4 HP, 15.6 Def, 8.6 Res, 62.2 Avo Hand Axe: 35.7 Atk, 17.2 AS, 24.4 Crit—43.4 HP, 15.6 Def, 8.6 Res, 60.2 Avo Silver Lance: 43.7 Atk, 17.2 AS, 24.4 Crit—43.4 HP, 15.6 Def, 8.6 Res, 62.2 Avo On offense, it’s not really decisive at all; Fiora has more AS and Crit, while Sain has more Atk. On defense, Sain has some HP/Def/Avo, but it’s nothing at all substantial. Fiora also takes more damage from bows, but bow enemies can’t counter her from close range and she outranges most of them by a lot, so w/e @ those actually being a threat to her. Also, whenever Fiora has Delphi Shield (about 50% of the time if you include Florina’s using it), she doesn’t suffer a weakness to bows at all, so that goes away completely. Sain’s major remaining win is against lances. Far more significant than that, though, is Fiora’s lead of 13-14 Res. Magic users appear quite frequently in the late-midgame and lategame chapters, and, unlike with bows/lances, Sain can’t ever attack magic users before they attack him, since he’ll just be counterattacked no matter what weapon he uses. Add even a single magic user to a group of enemies and Fiora has the higher durability for that particular group easily. Let alone those 40+ valks in Victory or Death. Indeed, I hardly see any huge win in combat at all, which is what Sain would need in order to beat Fiora in this debate. Offense is even and defense goes to Fiora. Plus, remember, this is the best possible situation for Sain, since we discounted his promotion troubles. Subtract a few levels from him, and the comparison only worsens. The only time he ever clearly wins combat at all is when Fiora first joins and for a bit of prepromotion. After that, he has nothing at all to match her ability to fly, and there are times when she even turns around and beats him combatwise, so she trumps him easily overall. |
| this is the best Brawl match ever....EVER | |
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| smash fanatic | Jun 21 2008, 06:57 AM Post #3 |
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It's not quite the same case here, because Sain happens to be one of the best fighters in the game (note that I'll get to that 20/10 comparison you made in a bit). When presented with a decision to bring a flier or one of the best fighters - not just any old fighter -, I would take the good fighter. Flying is important, but combat is more important, and having the best fighters on the team takes priority over flying; you obviously can't proceed through the game without having good fighters to wipe out the enemies ASAP, unless you go slower, which is not a good thing. For example, in Port of Badon, where you can only bring like 8 units total, I'm deploying Guy/Raven/sword users over a flier, because I need units to deal with the pirates, who are the immediate threats, rather than a flier for simple flying utility for the houses. Of course Flo would make it into that chapter before lulzy units like Bartre, but Sain isn't like Bartre; he's more like Guy/Raven. Flying has its own disadvantages too. Bows raep Fiora badly, and her HP/def are already not very good. The mt from a steel bow alone takes out over half of base Fiora's HP, and then when you factor in the bowman's str, it will almost always 2HKO her. Fiora basically cannot go in a 7-range radius of any bowmen because they rape her badly, which obviously restricts mobility (9-range radius if the bowman is a Nomad). It's even worse when there's fog of war, like the chapter Fiora joins in, since you can't even plan where the bowmen are and keep her away from them, and that's usually the only way to mitigate the bow weakness. It's nearly impossible to keep her on the frontlines with fog of war because of the threat of a bowman running in from nowhere and sniping her, and if she's not there, she does hardly anything to help the team. When bows are present, Sain is actually the one winning mobility. "So give her the Delphi Shield" That still has several problems. First, it shows up late in the game, so it doesn't do anything until then, and then it prevents other fliers from using it, and since you're suggesting Florina as Fiora's support, one of them will be left hurting. And it takes up a spot in the inventory, which will definitely pose problems if Fiora wants to use a varied weapon selection. For example, Iron sword + Iron lance + Javelin + Delphi Shield only leaves her one more slot. It helps the problem, but doesn't solve it. Flying also means Fiora cannot use terrain, while Sain can. Your argument at the end emphasizes Fiora's res lead, making her more durable vs magic. Stick him on a forest, however, and her durability lead vs magic becomes negligible. The Valks will have, like, 15-20 real hit on him, and considering it already takes like 3-4 before he dies, he won't be doing much dying against them, and every other magic user is worse than the Valks (except maybe the Luna Druids, but they pierce through Fiora's res anyway). Terrain bonuses doesn't just end at magic, though, nor is it just helping him at lategame. The promoted enemies like heroes are actually pretty tough with their good att/hit, and both are far from invincible early on. The forest's 20 avo can easily make the difference between Sain facing 30 hit (which is about 18 real) and Fiora facing 50 hit (which is 50 real, meaning she gets hit about 2.5 times more often). Sain can get a huge w1n in durability whenever he stands on terrain. Now, to show how good Sain's performance in combat is early on and prove what I'm saying isn't just hot air, let's compare him to what we consider the best fighting unit in the game when that unit joins: Raven. You say Sain is about 9 or 10/0 when he joins, and he has about 1.5 chapters on Raven, so let's say he's 11/0 when Raven appears. 11/0 Sain 27 HP, 14 str, 7.5 skl, 10 spd, 8 def, 2 res, 7.5 lck, 9 con, 7 move 27.5 avo Iron Lance: 21 att Steel sword: 22 att, 9 spd, 25.5 avo Steel lance: 24 att, 6 spd, 19.5 avo 5/0 Raven 29 HP, 10 str, 13 skl, 14.6 spd, 5.9 def, 3 res, 2 lck, 8 con, 5 move 31.2 avo Iron sword: 15 att Steel sword: 18 att, 12.6 spd, 27.2 avo Raven has either 4-5 more spd but 6 less att, or 2-3 more spd but 3 less att. He's also a bit behind in durability. 2 HP + 1 res + 4 avo vs 2 def, lances, and 5.5 crit eva, which actually matters here since 2 crit eva is lol (only 6 skl is needed to have a crit rate on Raven? wtf). None of Raven's defensive leads give him a significant edge against anything, while Sain's second weapon type makes him much better against swords and lances (with WTA or Raven at WTD, Sain's got 3 def/11 avo on Raven). Sain also has 2 more move for reaching more targets and stuff, and 2-range options. So, Sain is arguably better than what we consider the best fighting unit in the game when that unit first joins, and is most certainly not losing by a significant margin? h4x. Like I said, w1n fighter > flier with average stats.
However, the number of situations where your better stats let you kill and survive are also very important, and Sain does that much, much better than Fiora for the whole game. Flying lets you go off and do stuff that few others can do, like reach far out enemies or get to villages faster. Having nice stats lets you do stuff that few others can do, like one-round certain enemies or survive against more enemies/situations. Also, flying PREVENTS you from doing stuff that others can do, like going near bows and being able to camp on terrain. Sain's horse only prevents him from going near horse slaying weapons, which are far less common than bows, and Sain can typically get WTA on thsoe slaying weapons so they have trouble hitting him at all, while Fiora can't get WTA on bows. (The horse also makes him bad in Pent's desert chapter, but that's FoW and whatever bowmen are lurking in the shadows will certainly scare Fiora anyway.)
However, when you have TWO fliers instead of one, the value of flying diminishes. See, the value of flying (or anything, really) comes from the uniqueness of being the only one to do a certain job, but when you have two fliers on the team, you could have either one do the job, and thus the value diminishes. Say that out of the 40 or so units in this game, only 1 could one-round this certain enemy (like Guy vs a swordmaster or something). That unit would be pretty cool and all for being the only one to do that. However, if 20 could one-round that certain enemy (say some units vs a paladin), then it's not worth much anymore, and if all 40 could one-round that enemy (say some units vs a priest), then it'd be worth almost nothing. It's basically the same reason why one-rounding the unpromoted fighters/mages/nubs/etc. lategame is of little worth, because so many others can do it too. Thieves and healers are very similar to this too. Matthew is the only thief until Legault joins, and is the only one who can get the silver card; hence, he has one good argument out of many to make him rank very high. If there was another thief that you could field to get that silver card, it's almost guaranteed that he would drop by some amount. Conversely, if one of Serra or Prissy didn't exist in this game, the other would almost be guaranteed a top 3 spot. The value of a lead comes from its uniqueness and its inherent worth. Now, when you have two fliers, the value of flying diminishes because you have two people to do a job instead of one, and when you do that, Florina actually doesn't look like a very good unit anymore. She has good spd, lck, and res, (and move, but I throw that in with mobility/flying and such), but her low con hurts her speed badly, and luck is mostly used to bolster avoid, but with her best options not giving any avoid and getting only half boosts at best, plus not being able to use terrain, it's not helping her much. Good res isn't helping her much when she has low HP/def/str. If you field both Fiora and Florina, both of their individual flying worth drops a bit (making Florina a shaky support option), and if you only field Fiora, she loses out on one of her best support options.
It's 4 chapters. Noble Lady of Caelin + whatever that chapter is when Raven and Lucius joins + Port of Badon + that ship chapter, and then Fiora joins in Dread Isle. I see him being 13/0 when Fiora joins. Also, only 0.5-1 levels per chapter? Units like Lowen and Guy are promoting at, like, chapter 26 at that rate, which is certainly too slow, since chapter 27 is usually considered very late for promotion, and I had my units promoting around chapter 24. Something like 1.1 or 1.2 levels per chapter sounds better. It's minor, but makes a difference (after 5 chapters, it amounts to 1 extra level). You said that Sain is better when Fiora joins, but I say I should stress that point, and show just how much better. 13/0 Sain, C Kent 28.6 HP, 15.2 str, 8.2 skl, 10.8 spd, 8.4 def, 2.4 res, 8.2 lck, 9 con, 7 move 29.8 avo Iron Lance: 23.2 att Steel sword: 24.2 att, 9.8 spd, 27.8 avo Javelin: 22.2 att, 8.8 spd, 25.8 avo 7/0 Fiora 21 HP, 8 str, 11 skl, 13 spd, 6 def, 7 res, 6 lck, 5 con, 7 move 32 avo Slim Lance: 12 att Iron Lance: 15 att, 10 spd, 26 avo Javelin: 14 att, 8 spd, 22 avo Even if Iron lance Sain doesn't double and Slim Lance Fiora does, Sain wins damage even if the enemy has 2 def, and liek everything has at least that, so Sain wins offense against every single enemy, and wins by a lot when neither double, and wins by a gigantic margin when they both double. Sain wins defense too. 7-8 HP + 2-3 def + swords + terrain options vs 2 avo + 4-5 res. Since mages usually come by themselves, you only get attacked one at a time, so you lose that much mroe HP, and there aren't many status-inflicting staves at the moment (if any at all), so 4-5 res more or less cancels out with 4-5 HP. Also, anything other than a slim lance cuts into her avoid, where Sain actually starts winning it (if she uses an iron lance, she loses avo by 4). So, technically, Sain wins HP, def, AND avoid, plus has another weapon type, and can camp on terrain? Again, a huge win in defense for him. Way better offense + better defense = Sain has a commanding lead in combat. It doesn't get much better before promotion time. 18/0 Sain, B Kent/C Serra 32.6 HP, 18 str, 9.9 skl, 12.8 spd, 9.4 def, 3.4 res, 9.9 lck, 9 con, 7 move 42.5 avo, 10.4 def, 4.4 res Iron Lance: 27 att Steel sword: 28 att, 11.8 spd, 40.5 avo Javelin: 26 att, 10.8 spd, 38.5 avo 15/0 Fiora, C Kent/C Flo 26.6 HP, 10.8 str, 15.8 skl, 17 spd, 7.6 def, 11 res, 8.4 lck, 5 con, 7 move 44.4 avo, 8.6 def, 12 res Slim Lance: 16.8 att Iron lance: 19.8 att, 14 spd, 38.4 avo Javelin: 18.8 att, 11 spd, 32.4 avo The leads changed a bit in Fiora's favor, but Sain is still winning massively. Iron lance Sain vs Slim Lance Fiora is about 10 att vs 4 spd on offense (if Fiora doubles and Sain doesn't, the enemy needs 7 or less def for Fiora to win damage, which most enemies have, and Sain easily wins against everything else), and 6 HP + 2 def + swords + terrain vs 2 avo and 7-8 res, and still loses avo if she switches off that slim lance.
The first thing I'd like to point out is that Lowen and Oswin are both tanks, so it's unlikely you'll need both of them (I'm assuming Kent is in play with Sain, since he's his best support, which means only 1 knight crest is free), especially since you have other units that have good durability, like Hector, and even Eliwood after supports is pretty tanky, among a few others. Now I'll handle them individually. For Lowen, he probably won't be played unless Rebecca is also in play because otherwise he loses a huge chunk of his offense, and losing 3 att/15 crit on a unit with one of the lowest pow/AS combinations in the game makes his offense stink. If she is in play and Lowen is subsequently fielded, then it's still not a whole disadvantage for Sain. You see, Rebecca supports Sain, and Rebecca likes that support (after Lowen, her other choice is Raven, who is pure defensive, and since Rebecca rarely takes player phase counters and usually isn't doing anything on enemy phase, she doesn't need more durability, so she'd take Sain over Raven), so Sain gains a potential support option. In short, either Lowen isn't fighting Kent/Sain for a knight crest, or Sain gains another potential supporter, making his support list more flexible than Fiora's, and able to fit onto more potential team setups. And flexibility is a good thing, since that's basically what we're arguing about (Fiora is flexible enough to fly around and such/Sain is flexible enough to hang around near bows/etc.) Oswin is, in a way, similar to Marcus. His earlygame is h4x, but his lategame struggles; he never dies unless you actually try, but his mobility is mediocre, and he has speed issues making his offense overall mediocre (most promoted enemies lategame have 10+ speed even after AS loss from weapons, and Oswin has just 14 at 20/10). The problem is that, lategame, not many people have issues with dying, so him never dying isn't worth a whole lot, while he still has to work with his lategame disadvantages. He's a decent choice to bring along to lategame, but not whoamg awesome like Raven or Serra, or even people like Eliwood. I could very easily use Oswin, and not promote him and drop him later (and therefore not take a knight crest) and still get a lot of raep out of him, just like how we typically use Marcus, since most of Oswin's raep is in early/midgame where he's not promoted anyway. Although all four of them are good units, you can easily handle with just promoting 3 of them, and if you don't like Rebecca, Lowen may not even be used either, leaving just 2.
First, one stat is slightly off for Sain. He doesn't lose AS from silver lance. It only adds 1 AS to your comparisons, but it makes the AS gap much smaller, especially since the difference between them when they use silver lances is now just 1. I have enemy stats from VoD, but I'm too lazy to pull them out. I will, however, say a few things. - *most* of the enemies that Sain can't double (where Fiora's speed lead can be put to use) are... A) heroes, who Fiora barely wins damage even if she doubles and Sain can't (if she uses iron lance, vs Silver Lance Sain, they're about tied in damage if the enemy has 16 def, and I'm sure most heroes have about that much). If she uses killer/silver, she may run into problems doubling it, especially with silver, since her AS lead over silver lance Sain is just 1 point...  swordmasters, who Fiora can't double either, or...C) valks/nomad troopers, and there's problems with this that will take some room to explain. If we assume that Fiora doubles with iron lance and Sain doesn't with... anything, then she uses iron, kills off something (although NTs might have too much HP/def for that...) and then counter nothing on enemy phase. Sain uses silver, OHKOs valks (they have 32 HP/10 def or something) and does hueg damage to NTs, and then counters nothing on enemy phase. There's very little difference there, especially if Fiora isn't one-rounding the NTs with her iron lance. She could use killer, but that drops her AS by one more, and with just a 2 point window, that doesn't leave much room where she doubles and Sain doesn't. If they use javelins (Sain doesn't need hand axe), then their AS is more or less tied, so Fiora has no AS advantage there. Speaking of nomad troopers, they like using bows, which isn't good for Fiora, and even if she has the Delphi Shield, Florina probably isn't in range because she'd be exposed to the NTs too, so she'd lose whatever support bonuses she had with her against them, reducing her damage further to the point where Sain might win offense vs them even if she doubles and he doesn't... Other than these dudes, most enemies have issues breaking 13 spd, and they tend to still lose some AS from their weapons, so Sain's doubling them anyway, making Fiora's AS lead against them almost worthless. Overall, the speed lead isn't doing a whole lot for Fiora. - The crit lead is similarly small. Sain is already raping hard to due having the game's highest att or something, as well as enough speed to double the majority of enemies. Sain doesn't need crit for most enemies anyway. For those that he does (i.e. stuff he can't double), Fiora has difficulty doubling them with a killer weapon, and if she doesn't use a killer weapon, her chances of critting are still unimpressive (53-54% on a double with iron). Like the speed lead, it doesn't do much for her. - On the other hand, Sain's w1n att lead, and being able to match Silver lance Fiora's att with a mere iron weapon while having negligbly lower crit/AS, gives him tons of advantages. First, the most obvious advantage is that he's cheaper. An iron axe is 6 gold per use while Fiora's silver lance is 60. Sain builds up over a 1k lead in funds after just 20 attacks. After like... 80 attacks, Sain has a 4k gold lead on Fiora. You can actually dump a speedwing on Sain now, and he'd be losing funds by 4k, but now has +2 spd, and doubles basically the same things as Fiora, completely solidifying his offense lead on her. Second, this lets him utilize the weapon triangle more often. If we assume Fiona with silver lance has the att to 2HKO a certain enemy, then Sain can use any old weapon he wants to kill, while Fiora is locked to that lance of hers. For example, if they go up against a warrior, Sain can switch over to a steel sword and still one-round, while Fiora suffers WTD with that silver lance, and if she switches to a sword, she will likely not have the att required to 2HKO anymore. Third, this lets him attack with javelins/hand axes more often, because his att is almost the same as Silver Lance Fiora, and now he can one-round most 2-range stuff on enemy phase (Silver Lance Fiora obviously can't, and switching to her own javelin doesn't do much since her att sucks with it). And because his range is greater, he can place himself on a nice forest more often for sexy 20 avo. Fourth, this gives him the option to attack without having supporters nearby, like hang out by himself to wipe out some reinforcements and then catch up later, or just moving off without worrying (he can place himself on terrain out of range of support bonuses rather than staying on a normal tile next to supporters, because a forest gives him better defensive bonuses than his full supports...). Of course, if he's not next to his supporters, then he'll need to bust out a silver lance, because otherwise his att will suck too, but that's not really a problem. And fifth is, of course, just pwning the crap out of stuff with his silver lance, like those tough generals/wyverns that many people have issues killing because of their wtf HP/def, or OHKOing magic users (like valks lol). Basically, Sain can use any weapon he wants to best fit the situation he is in. he can cost less than Fiora, or snag WTA/avoid WTD more often, or can attack at 2-range and have a better chance at standing on top of terrain, and is much better at handling 2-range enemies, etc. Fiora is stuck with that silver lance to have some semblance of att. Sain can get much better offense or much better defense, and can help funds rank. Flexibility ftw. As for their raw durability stats, yes, they are similar except for Fiora's res. However, like I said in my passage about terrain, Sain standing on a forest will not be worried about enemy magic at all, and of course makes him much better against every enemy in general. Also, if he really needs to, he can fall back on pure waters, and now dies in like 5-6 hits to the Valks instead of 3-4 (the Druids kill him faster, but they have lower hit, except the Luna ones where they pwn Fiora too, and then the bishops kill him slower due to lower att). Yes, they do cost 300 gold, but that doesn't do much, because that just cancels out with about 6 of Fiora's silver lance attacks. Yes, they also consume a spot in his inventory, but that doesn't matter as much as Fiora's Delphi shield taking a spot in her inventory, because you're probably trading the pure water around to teammates, who will probably trade Sain a weapon of their own for that pure water, and since Sain can use like any weapon ever, whatever they give him can probably be used as a 5th weapon anyway. Fiora trading the Delphi shield to Flo doesn't help because now she's the one weak to bows, and no one else wants to trade Fiora with Fiora for the delphi shield because it doesn't do anything for them. With the existence of both terrain and pure waters, as well as the general crappiness and rarity of magic users (I believe Valks are only really common in 3 chapters), Sain isn't particularly worried about dying from magic. At the very least, not as much as Fiora worrying about bows. Okay, so let's recap. - Sain is one of your best fighters when he joins, sizing up to Raven (who we consider the best or one of the best fighters in the game) when the latter joins very nicely, and crushing Fiora in combat all the way until at least they promote, since he wins both offense and defense very handily. - Fiora's flying even being an advantage for her is debatable; she is fearful of bows (especially prominent in FoW chapters), and cannot utilize terrain, plus the actual worth of flying is diminished if Flo is also played as Fiora's supporter, since it reduces the uniqueness of flying, which is what gives flying its advantages. Compound this with Sain usually winning HP/def/avo, and he has a significant durability lead on her. - The issue with the knight crests is overrated. Either Lowen is played, and Rebecca is also played, giving Sain another support option, or Rebecca is not played and thus Lowen isn't played. Oswin himself isn't a "must have" lategame unit, since he's similar to Marcus with his somewhat average lategame performance (great durability + mediocre mobility + mediocre offense). It's easy to create a team where only 3 of the 4 paladins/Oswin are played, and sometimes you can construct a team with just Kent/Sain. - Sain's att lead lategame gives him lots of flexibility in terms of what he wants to do in a given situation, since he can use more or less any weapon he wants and still have the same or better offense as Fiora with her best weapons. On the other hand, Fiora's AS/crit/res leads don't mean much. tl;dr Sain is more awesome than Fiora. |
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2:33 AM Nov 26
