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| Final Tier List? | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 14 2008, 06:54 PM (1,234 Views) | |
| Reikken | Sep 10 2008, 02:03 AM Post #16 |
 
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Serra >> Priscilla tbqphimho due to massive level lead Also, how is Raven a whole tier above Guy?
Eh? Lyn mode is so easy to get S in tactics that I can slow down, spending an extra 10+ turns to gain levels for Serra and Nils. (most recent Lyn mode S: Serra lv 11 by the end) http://www.serenesforest.net/fe7/rank2.html (lulz @ 7 turns for chapters 1, 2, 3. They take 4-5. Ditto for ch 6) |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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| Mekkah | Sep 10 2008, 02:37 AM Post #17 |
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Priscilla vs Serra is better (faster) support list + mount vs better affinity + stat lead. I agree Serra is the better one, but not by a lot. S-rank for tactics in Lyn Mode doesn't matter, tier lists are about S-ranking HHM. The only rank from Lyn Mode that matters is funds, which you always S as long as you get all expensive stuff and only use one of the Knight Crest, Angelic Robe and Energy Ring. Oswin an entire tier above all those High peoples like Erk? For earlygame, sure, Oswin is clearly God himself. After that, people stop dying, and Oswin stops killing reliably, and people walk their full move more. And then he uses a Knight Crest which is trouble for Kent/Sain/Lowen. Lowen > Raven, Serra? o.O |
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| Reikken | Sep 10 2008, 10:47 AM Post #18 |
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"stat lead" doesn't cover it. Attatcking earlier is more than just better stats. *shrug* I assumed this was an S LHM -> S HHM tier list. Well, LHM is obviously included, so what is it? Durability with the move to make use of it or move with the durability to make use of it is pretty win, especially in a game where the combat rank is lol and tactics and exp are hardest. So I can see him above Raven. Not so much above Serra, though. |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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| Mekkah | Sep 10 2008, 02:32 PM Post #19 |
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If you give Serra and Priscilla Guiding Rings at the same time, they attack at the same time. Priscilla obviously has the option to grow on when unpromoted though. I generally assume something like distributing Lyn Mode EXP evenly, then optionally Lundgrenabusing until Nils is L7 if you like trying to get 19xx (not very viable due to Kishuna being uber hard to kill, but hey), and S-ing Funds obviously for the White Gem. Doesn't matter much, because Lyn Mode enemies fail even more than HHM ones. Meh, everyone and their mom has the durability to move around come midgame, except people like Peg Knights, Lyn, Lucius etc. I'd also complain about Lowen's supports (lol Rebecca), but then again, Raven isn't much better off (lol Lucius and being like #3 or #4 on Priscilla's list). |
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| Reikken | Sep 10 2008, 03:35 PM Post #20 |
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You would srsly promote Priscilla at lv 10-12? k.. Anyway, that's a pretty crushing stat lead. I can't see Priscilla being super close. Sure they have enough durability to move around, but not to move around that far. |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Sep 10 2008, 08:32 PM Post #21 |
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*takes this opportunity to note that he dislikes the idea of promoting early and has always opposed it as a good idea for various reasons that will not be mentioned now because this was a pointless note anyway, just like a sort of "I've said this since the beginning" type of thing that has no relevance on anything* Ahem. Durability > offense in this gaem, so sure. Lowen > Raven is perfectly reasonable. |
| this is the best Brawl match ever....EVER | |
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| Mekkah | Sep 10 2008, 11:57 PM Post #22 |
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The alternative (not promoting her) is that Serra rapes her even more, so it seems to me that promoting her at such a point is Priscilla's best option. If it's a crushing stat lead now, it probably always was, since their growths don't differ that much.
How? Sure, EXP and tactics are ghey, but Lowen doesn't necessarily help those more than Raven does. The offense gap is much larger than the durability gap, too. Also, Raven helps the EXP rank when he joins. |
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| +Ema Skye | Sep 10 2008, 11:57 PM Post #23 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Durability > offense in every FE game. |
 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Reikken | Sep 11 2008, 01:13 AM Post #24 |
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Attacking a bunch of doods without killing them a turn before anyone else would have engaged them helps the exp rank and makes them easier to kill for others, and it gets them killed just as fast or faster than if someone like Raven came in a turn later and one-rounded them. And, of course, Lowen doesn't always not kill things. His offense isn't that bad since enemies in this game suck so much in durability. You often can make him one-round them if you want. |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Sep 11 2008, 02:36 PM Post #25 |
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I don't see where you get that Serra rapes her even more. It's the same degree of raep either way, more or less.
The vast majority of enemies in FE7 are unpromoted, meaning that most of the time you'll be one-rounding everything in sight. Meanwhile, despite being unpromoted, these enemies that you're facing are vast in number, so they can still kill you (getting hit for 4 damage by 6 enemies is the equivalent of getting hit for 12 damage by 2 enemies). That's why I say defense > offense.
No. FE6 alone defeats that notion. I'd say that offense matters more in FE6 than durability at times, in fact, and at the very least they're even overall. Also, offense > defense in FE9, too, at least when comparing units in the upper tiers. |
| this is the best Brawl match ever....EVER | |
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| Mekkah | Sep 12 2008, 01:23 AM Post #26 |
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If durability > offense, and helping EXP can be used as an excuse for not one rounding, then Dorcas could stand to be a lot higher, and not just one step above the unit with second-worst durability in the game. Hell, the unit with the worst durability is above him in Inui's list, lol.
3 Priscilla - 23.0 avo, 16.0 hp, 3.0 def, 6.0 res 12 Serra - 37.4 avo, 22.5 hp, 3.6 def, 11.1 res 11 Priscilla - B Erk, C Guy 41.6 avo, 19.6 hp, 5.2 def, 11.0 res 20/1 Serra - C Erk, B Sain Lightning: 17.5 atk, 15.6 AS, 26.1 crit - - 58.6 avo, 29.5 hp, 8.8 def, 19.4 res I would say this is quite wtfrape. Serra wins every defensive parameter, and then she has quite a load of offense as well, while Priscilla suffers from worse-than-Archer syndrome. 11/1 Priscilla - B Erk, C Guy Fire: 18.2 atk, 11.2 AS, 20.3 crit - - 41.6 avo, 22.6 hp, 7.2 def, 14.0 res Serra still wins, but by a much, much smaller margin, since Priscilla can actually attack now. If we left her unpromoted, she would build up more enemy phase suck, then promote while Serra is like 20/10 (assuming they grow at the same rate unpromoted as promoted...if they actually grow faster, it makes promoting Priscilla at the same time better, soz...). 20/1 Priscilla - A Erk, B Guy Fire: 27.8 atk, 19.8 AS, 35.0 crit - - 74.6 avo, 31.7 hp, 13.5 def, 23.5 res 20/10 Serra - B Erk, B Sain Lightning: 27.0 atk, 24.2 AS, 35.0 crit - - 91.2 avo, 39.0 hp, 16.2 def, 30.4 res For offense, they're even except for Serra's huge AS lead, which she can convert into Atk in the form of Shine to beat out that meaningless .8 lead Priscilla has there. Defense, Serra wins every single parameter, so it's not a contest there at all. 11/10 Priscilla is the same, except she can switch to Thunder now while 20/1 Priscilla cannot. So it helps Priscilla a lot to promote early, since she can counter on enemy phase between 11 and 21 (21 being either 20/1 or 11/10), build up Anima rank for Thunder, and generally have moar movement, plus the option of attacking on player phase if there's no need for healing. If she doesn't do this, Serra completely destroys her in this period. So for 11/10 Pris to be < 20/1, I guess you can argue for...gaining EXP more slowly? Either way, if durability > offense again, then I find Priscilla for second best unit kinda laughable.
I don't see how they fail so much more at durability than at attacking. Mid and lategame, unpromoted axe users don't have much more than 80 hit before PC avo with their Steel/Hand Axes, and PC Avo frequently forces that to like 20%, might even be 10% or 0%. Lowen isn't more durable against those than, say, Raven. Steel Lances/Javelins are slightly more accurate, but not by much. Steel Swords have better hit%, but they do fail damage. Magic is a little more threatening, but iirc they have about the same Avo/HP, so bleh. |
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| Reikken | Sep 12 2008, 01:42 AM Post #27 |
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16.2 atk
wtfbbq This one's completely wrong. 19.8 AS... 5 higher than her 20/1 spd... 16.2 def... 5 higher than her 20/10 def after the listed supports... Did you just add 5 to everything? hp is 5 higher, too... Serra can get a C Erk, too, btw. Also, 20/1 Priscilla helped the exp rank more than 11/10 Priscilla, so that's one advantage, at least. |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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| Mekkah | Sep 12 2008, 02:49 AM Post #28 |
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9.2 Mag at L11 +2 promo bonus +2 from B Erk +1 from C Guy = 14.2 Then 5 Mt from Fire makes...19.2. e_e
Um, yeah, wtf  Adding a HM bonus of 0 fixes it though. :[
And 11/1 Priscilla helped tactics more than 11/0. Anyway 20/10 Serra - B Sain, B Erk Lightning: 22.0 atk, 19.2 AS, 32.5 crit - - 76.2 avo, 34.0 hp, 11.2 def, 25.4 res
Serra has C and B Erk. I guess you mean C Lucius... Lightning: 22.0 atk, 19.2 AS, 37.5 crit - - 78.2 avo, 34.0 hp, 12.2 def, 26.4 res Not much of a difference. |
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| Reikken | Sep 12 2008, 03:20 AM Post #29 |
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Oh right. Spd is the +0, not mag. also... "Adding a HM bonus of 0 fixes it though. :[" fix'd. Now you don't have to. |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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12:46 PM Nov 23
