Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Fire Emblem Fusion. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 3
New Debate Topic; I'm going to Nationals
Topic Started: Apr 28 2009, 08:03 AM (259 Views)
Askio
Member Avatar
Crit McGee on Speed
Veteran
So I'm going to one of the two national championships for Lincoln Douglas debate this year. The new topic is a bit of a weird one I think. Tell me what you guys think.


Resolved: When in conflict, the preservation of minority culture values ought to be valued above the preservation of a unified national culture.




Allright, I more or less can only speak on the negative with this one, and I take the place of comprimise, rather than completely getting rid of a minority culture. What do you guys think of it?
Edited by Askio, Apr 28 2009, 08:03 AM.
Posted Image

Fire Emblem Online
Askio: 9-1-1


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sentenal
Member Avatar
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
FEFF Emperor
I'm not sure I completely understand the topic.

Is it asking: If there is a culture conflict between a "main steam culture" and a "minority culture", should it be the minority culture that is preserved and valued?

If that is the question, hell no. The majority shouldn't be forced to bend their entire culture to a minority if a conflict arises. If that was the case, the majority would have to bend over for the smallest group of people, in terms of culture and values.

Thats not to say that there shouldn't be minority cultures in a country. Just simply if there was ever a conflict between the two (where one must change), the majority should win out... Because it is the majority.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Askio
Member Avatar
Crit McGee on Speed
Veteran
Sentenal
Apr 28 2009, 04:45 PM
I'm not sure I completely understand the topic.

Is it asking: If there is a culture conflict between a "main steam culture" and a "minority culture", should it be the minority culture that is preserved and valued?

If that is the question, hell no. The majority shouldn't be forced to bend their entire culture to a minority if a conflict arises. If that was the case, the majority would have to bend over for the smallest group of people, in terms of culture and values.

Thats not to say that there shouldn't be minority cultures in a country. Just simply if there was ever a conflict between the two (where one must change), the majority should win out... Because it is the majority.
Thats what I was thinking. There is no reasonable way a minority, or virtually any real society, would put an individuals needs or a small groups above the majority unless it was a dictatorship, old monarchy, or other negative government body that abused or felt itself above the people to begin with. Examples being the Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea, Medieval France(and virtually every other country back then) etc. There are examples of a general culture that promotes consistent values and laws to go by having minority cultures thrive, or at least not threatened. America is one that has constantly changing minorities, Muslim societies that allowed people to practice other religions even if they did have to pay a tax.


That being said, its safe to assume to say this is an undemocratic standard to try to achieve.


But...I have to argue both sides. So does anyone have any ideas for the resolution on the AFF?
Posted Image

Fire Emblem Online
Askio: 9-1-1


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Soja
Member Avatar
Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

History is filled with the stories of minority groups that have ceased to exist entirely because they either assimilated into a greater minority group, a majority group, or were exterminated by one of the former two outright.

Societies rarely remain static forever, and minority groups usually aren't vastly different from the greater cultural groups that they co-exist under. Genocides and discrimination policies usually come from logic as simple as, "they're not like us."

That said, in a clash of ideals where both groups are technically one body under a governing force, the majority rule will always come into play.
Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
nigga please
Fusion Universe - FEF Fanfic
Slayers Forth - Slayers Fanfic
Smartest Member '06 & '07 & '08 & 'o9, Favored Debater '07 & '08 & '09, Most Popular '08, Manliest '08 & '09, Author of Nightmares, Scourge of the Luxon, Rules Lawyer, Nick's Former Hero, Crysta's Lover
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sentenal
Member Avatar
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
FEFF Emperor
Askio
Apr 29 2009, 08:46 PM
Sentenal
Apr 28 2009, 04:45 PM
I'm not sure I completely understand the topic.

Is it asking: If there is a culture conflict between a "main steam culture" and a "minority culture", should it be the minority culture that is preserved and valued?

If that is the question, hell no. The majority shouldn't be forced to bend their entire culture to a minority if a conflict arises. If that was the case, the majority would have to bend over for the smallest group of people, in terms of culture and values.

Thats not to say that there shouldn't be minority cultures in a country. Just simply if there was ever a conflict between the two (where one must change), the majority should win out... Because it is the majority.
Thats what I was thinking. There is no reasonable way a minority, or virtually any real society, would put an individuals needs or a small groups above the majority unless it was a dictatorship, old monarchy, or other negative government body that abused or felt itself above the people to begin with. Examples being the Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea, Medieval France(and virtually every other country back then) etc. There are examples of a general culture that promotes consistent values and laws to go by having minority cultures thrive, or at least not threatened. America is one that has constantly changing minorities, Muslim societies that allowed people to practice other religions even if they did have to pay a tax.


That being said, its safe to assume to say this is an undemocratic standard to try to achieve.


But...I have to argue both sides. So does anyone have any ideas for the resolution on the AFF?
Hmmm. The other side?

Maybe one could argue that each minority culture being protected, and therefore maintained, improves the diversity of society as a whole, and then make some argument about how great diversity is.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Conan O'Brien
Member Avatar
SKILLNADEN ÄR DRINKABILITY
Veteran
Should the majority's wishes be defended over those of the minority? Depends.

Should legal rights of the minority be preserved? Of course. Should the majority force their values on the minority? Of course not. Should the validity of the majority rule be preserved. Yes.

I think these three considerations really make up the debate. Take in France for example, where Muslim girls are not allowed to wear headscarves in school. That, in my opinion, is an unacceptable infringement on their rights. But translating all official documents to Spanish at great cost to the state because the minority refuses to adopt the unofficial language of the country? That's different in my opinion.

In general, I'm going to say majority rule overrules minority concerns, except when it comes to legal rights.
~~Wind Sword

Quote:
 
Please keep Christian bashing to a minimum. This is mainly the American South (and mainly Evangelical death cults), which is similar to Afghanistan under the Taliban.

Touching.

Scientology
Quote:
 
Clones are create and people can't bore a clone. Scientifically they are called born and not created. The only way to pre-determine their genes is if they are already out in the world usually in a pod that would resemble the sac in a mothers womb. Take Star Wars for example.

Smartest post ever made.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+Reaver
Member Avatar
Troll
Advisor
I'm with the affirmative here, if only for the reason of culture.

Preserving the minority culture doesn't mean eliminating the majority culture or making it "bend" to fit a different set of social constraints. For example, take the example of Muslim girls in schools. They should be allowed to wear headscarves in class if they so wish because it's a matter of putting their cultural beliefs into practice. Nobody else has to wear headscarves, nobody has to believe in Islam, but we permit somebody else to further enact their set of beliefs with no harm to the majority.

Once this extends to government policy, however, we have to rework how we think about the issue entirely because issues of "majority" and "minority" rule don't necessarily yield the most fair answer. If we go with favoring the voice of the majority, we could legitimately enact slavery. On the other hand, listening to the views of solely the minority would result in unfair shifts to societal equilibria with real consequences which may even extend into the economic, tangible realm.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

HJ, December 30 2008
06:20 PM
You gave Inui his first (and last?) sexual experience, didn't you? That's historic.

Favorite Staffer Summer 2008 -- Send me a Personal Message
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Askio
Member Avatar
Crit McGee on Speed
Veteran
Reaver
May 1 2009, 04:25 PM
I'm with the affirmative here, if only for the reason of culture.

Preserving the minority culture doesn't mean eliminating the majority culture or making it "bend" to fit a different set of social constraints. For example, take the example of Muslim girls in schools. They should be allowed to wear headscarves in class if they so wish because it's a matter of putting their cultural beliefs into practice. Nobody else has to wear headscarves, nobody has to believe in Islam, but we permit somebody else to further enact their set of beliefs with no harm to the majority.

Once this extends to government policy, however, we have to rework how we think about the issue entirely because issues of "majority" and "minority" rule don't necessarily yield the most fair answer. If we go with favoring the voice of the majority, we could legitimately enact slavery. On the other hand, listening to the views of solely the minority would result in unfair shifts to societal equilibria with real consequences which may even extend into the economic, tangible realm.
In other words, the best way to go on the affirmative is going to be about preserving those rights without the threatening of the general culture, therefore reaching a sort of equilibrium. Its all going to go by interpretation, but that's what I'm generally strongest at. Thanks guys, everyone pretty much confirmed my ideas, or gave me new ones I needed a headway in.
Posted Image

Fire Emblem Online
Askio: 9-1-1


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sentenal
Member Avatar
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
FEFF Emperor
Quote:
 
Preserving the minority culture doesn't mean eliminating the majority culture or making it "bend" to fit a different set of social constraints. For example, take the example of Muslim girls in schools. They should be allowed to wear headscarves in class if they so wish because it's a matter of putting their cultural beliefs into practice. Nobody else has to wear headscarves, nobody has to believe in Islam, but we permit somebody else to further enact their set of beliefs with no harm to the majority.

I don't think the question is about whether to preserve a minority culture, or force it to assimilate. I think the question is, if there is a conflict between one of the two cultures, and one must change, should the minority culture be the one that is protected? Obviously the answer to this should be no.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+Reaver
Member Avatar
Troll
Advisor
Sentenal
 
I don't think the question is about whether to preserve a minority culture, or force it to assimilate. I think the question is, if there is a conflict between one of the two cultures, and one must change, should the minority culture be the one that is protected? Obviously the answer to this should be no.
This seems unlikely, however, because it merely suggests "preservation". The resolution does not imply destruction of the other culture.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

HJ, December 30 2008
06:20 PM
You gave Inui his first (and last?) sexual experience, didn't you? That's historic.

Favorite Staffer Summer 2008 -- Send me a Personal Message
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Askio
Member Avatar
Crit McGee on Speed
Veteran
Reaver
May 2 2009, 01:33 PM
Sentenal
 
I don't think the question is about whether to preserve a minority culture, or force it to assimilate. I think the question is, if there is a conflict between one of the two cultures, and one must change, should the minority culture be the one that is protected? Obviously the answer to this should be no.
This seems unlikely, however, because it merely suggests "preservation". The resolution does not imply destruction of the other culture.
One of the keys is interpretation of the resolution, and explaining why yours is superior. Honestly, conflicts can be resolved in numerous ways, many outside of total destruction or forced change. That's more of the style I'm leaning towards at least. though on the negative, I'm forcing them to speak in a real world context, so they have to prove in reality how this could be upheld instead of the oh so beloved utopia hypothetical arguments.
Posted Image

Fire Emblem Online
Askio: 9-1-1


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ephidel
Member Avatar

FEFFer
Quote:
 
Preserving the minority culture doesn't mean eliminating the majority culture or making it "bend" to fit a different set of social constraints. For example, take the example of Muslim girls in schools. They should be allowed to wear headscarves in class if they so wish because it's a matter of putting their cultural beliefs into practice. Nobody else has to wear headscarves, nobody has to believe in Islam, but we permit somebody else to further enact their set of beliefs with no harm to the majority.

I'd say that's a poor example. Personally, I believe that giving a religious person more freedom than any other person (say, by allowing them to wear otherwise-unauthorised clothes such as headscarves, jewellery, beards, Sikh daggers and so on) is wrong. Either give everyone equal freedom or make everyone obey the same law, religion or none.

Quote:
 
Take in France for example, where Muslim girls are not allowed to wear headscarves in school. That, in my opinion, is an unacceptable infringement on their rights.

Would you consider it an infringement on the rights of, say, Atheist or Christian girls that they are not allowed to wear headscarves either?
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Soja
Member Avatar
Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

No, because Christians and Atheists don't wear headscarves to adhere to certain tenets of their religion. Muslim women, however, do.

The law applies to any religious article of wear, including crosses, crucifixes, Stars of David, so on. I have always hated and been against this law because it is an infringement on the freedom of religion.
Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
nigga please
Fusion Universe - FEF Fanfic
Slayers Forth - Slayers Fanfic
Smartest Member '06 & '07 & '08 & 'o9, Favored Debater '07 & '08 & '09, Most Popular '08, Manliest '08 & '09, Author of Nightmares, Scourge of the Luxon, Rules Lawyer, Nick's Former Hero, Crysta's Lover
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ephidel
Member Avatar

FEFFer
But by allowing religious people to abstain from the rules common to everyone, this is elevating them above the others on what I believe is a very shaky excuse.

Let's change the example around. There is a rule in your school that you are not allowed to carry around giant wooden swords. However, if you are a Fire Emblem fan, you are given special permission to carry around a wooden sword at all times, whereas your Halo fanboy classmate is forbidden from doing so. Obviously, this is a silly example. No-one wants to carry around wooden swords. However, change the words "wooden sword" to "headscarf" and "Fire Emblem fan" to "Muslim" and you see what I mean.

This isn't infringing on said peoples' rights because they're getting exactly the same rights as everybody else. Of course, the easiest solution would be to allow anyone to wear headscarves, jewellery or whatever, but that's not likely to happen.
Edited by Ephidel, May 8 2009, 02:30 PM.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Soja
Member Avatar
Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

That's a stupid analogy.

First of all, Fire Emblem (or any game for that matter) is a fandom. It's a work of fiction meant for entertainment only.

Religion on the other hand is something that a person defines his or her character by, lives by, sometimes dies by. It is a lifestyle, and, unlike giant wooden swords, wearing accessories like headscarves or cross pendants poses no immediate potential physical threat to bystanders.

Explain your point of view, because you are making zero sense as of this post.
Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
nigga please
Fusion Universe - FEF Fanfic
Slayers Forth - Slayers Fanfic
Smartest Member '06 & '07 & '08 & 'o9, Favored Debater '07 & '08 & '09, Most Popular '08, Manliest '08 & '09, Author of Nightmares, Scourge of the Luxon, Rules Lawyer, Nick's Former Hero, Crysta's Lover
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Debate Forum · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 3


Affiliates
Fire Emblem Planet Global Trade Station Plus Emblem of the Zodiac Photobucket Image Hosting Fire Emblem Spritez Serenes Forest
Topsites
Final Fantasy Skies Topsites
Fire Emblem Fusion Skin, © Cubic and SwordsAreShiney.