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| My Tier list; Hard mode | |
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| Topic Started: May 29 2009, 11:17 AM (578 Views) | |
| kirsche | May 29 2009, 11:17 AM Post #1 |
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What do you guys think: Top Reyson Ike Haar Volug Zihark Titania Leanne Nolan Shinon Ulki Rafiel Sothe Janaff Nailah High Jill Gatrie Mia Tibarn Elincia Oscar Ranulf Micaiah Nephenee Mordecai Boyd Aran Laura Naesala Middle Heather Tanith Marcia Rolf Brom Muarim Tauroneo Kieran Calill Caineghas Giffca Skrimir Mist Low Geoffrey Makalov Soren Rhys Edward Ilyana Nealuchi Volke Tormod Lucia Stefan Danved Nasir Bottom Bastian Lethe Vika Kyza Leonardo Sigrun Ena Renning Pelleas Kurthnaga Oliver Gareth Astrid Meg Sanaki Lyre Worst than Est Fiona Changes? Edited by kirsche, Jun 5 2009, 02:14 AM.
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| Kitty | May 29 2009, 03:35 PM Post #2 |
Now you don't feel left out :D
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Lenne? she can only sing for two people. its a good ability to have but she requires so much babying. Reyson is the same but at least he can sing to everyone. I would put her in mid tier and him in high but i just never use them. :/ |
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| kirsche | May 29 2009, 05:21 PM Post #3 |
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Leanne's ability is very useful in Part 2 as it practically ensures 2 kills per turn. Her part 4 performance is also quite good with her making good use out of the terrain penalties other units are given. A heron's performance is multiplied by the number of units it can refresh. So Leanne has the usefulness of 2 units. Meaning if we consider 9 of her chapters + 2 (3-11 is bad for her), her usefulness is around that of Titania's (She has 17 chapters of +1, leanne has =+18 with this logic). This is why herons are so high in general. |
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| Kitty | May 29 2009, 07:01 PM Post #4 |
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Now you don't feel left out :D
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I like your thinking welcome aboard
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I said, Mother mother mother's for babies, call me Kitty, meow Join FEFF's newly developed sister site Brand of Flame. It's the same kinda stuff you like here and more (shameless advertising) Brand of Flame Awards: Spoiler: click to toggle Holy crap I actually won http://stalinova.mybrute.com/cellule Clicky, become my pupil, kick Tiaro's butt
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| +Ema Skye | May 29 2009, 07:56 PM Post #5 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Fiona is way better than Lyre. You overrated Ike and Volug a lot. Tibarn is significantly more useful than Janaff, but you have Tibarn way lower... Man oh man, I could go on forever with this one... Such strange opinions. |
 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Black Ice | May 30 2009, 11:58 AM Post #6 |
SHAPOOPI
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Shouldn't all the royal Laguz be ahead of everyone else? |
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| kirsche | May 30 2009, 02:51 PM Post #7 |
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Incorrect. Fiona, even with babying, struggles to deal damage at all. For example, a level 13/0 Fiona by 3-6 is not only ridiculous in itself, but the actual stats are ridiculour. She gets ORKO'ed by everything on the map excluding 2 level 14 cats. This means she's practically forced to use javelins and hit+run tactics to survive. But with a jevelin, she deals 0 damage to the mots common enemies, tigers. Lyre, on the other hand, can be trained pretty easily with the use of bexp, as she grows like a level 20/5 beorc with it. The bexp you get in chapter 3-3 is enougth to get Lyre to 99 exp and have ariound 1500 bexp for others to use (there was around 2800 bexp altogether). This, added to the fact that she can actually deal damage, helps her gain levels and get out of her hole. But to help emphasis my point, I'm going to be harsh with Lyre and give her 0.83 levels per chapter and a sucky support partner (Ranulf's wind... lol), and be really nice to Fiona who I'll give 2.8 levels per chapter and a great support partner (Jill): Level 22 Lyre, S strike, 'A' ranulf: Hp: 50, Mt: 31, As: 30, Hit: 165, Avo: 114, Def: 18, Res: 12 level 20/3 Fiona with a silver lance, 'A' Jill: Hp: 33, Mt: 27, As: 19, Hit: 142, Avo: 102, Def: 18, Res: 15 Offensively... it's a massive win for lyre. Who deals more damage in one attack but actually doubles, unlike Fiona. There is no chance for Fiona to be able to deal more damage than Lyre at this point in time. But guess what? Even a base level Lyre with S strike deals as much damage as Fiona does. Defensively, it's 12 avo, 11 AS and 17 HP against 3 res. Lyre wins defence too. So even with inflated levels and an unlikely support, Lyre is still better than Fiona come part 4.
Volug is the sole tank for 3-6 and 1-5. He's also arguably better than Tauroneo in 1-6 due to movement, better than Muarim and Tormod for not having durability issues (Tormod), transformation issues (Muarim) and giving out support bonuses (Both). The only unit that beats him is Nailah as the BK has movement issues. The fact that he's the DB's most consistent member and most reliable memeber is enougth for top tier in itself. Add to the fact his good-average part 4 performance and you have a great unit. Ike has a lot of chapters and is the GM's best unit for the first half of part 3. Ulki and Janaff eventually outclass him, though. But he still remains uber pwnage throughout part 3 and 4. After gettign ragnell he has a weapon with infinite exp, so he basically costs 0 gold per atatck from then on, and even beforehand, you have 2 ettards which cost 0 gold per attack too. Ike requires no babying, doubles from turn 1 and deals consisitently good damage throughout the whole game. Explain to me how he's NOT the best unit in this game. One of the main arguments for Kieran > Ike in FE9 was that ike was a lord, you supported this theory IIRC.
Ulki/janaff have more chapters of epic pwnage. Not to mention they can go down the silver army to help out in the desert or take on the masses of reinforcements in 4-4. Tibarn's stuck going down teh easiest route in part 4. Not to mention All 3 of them have bad 4-E-3 onwards due to lack of enemy phrase. Thne 4-E-2 is barely a chapter in itself, leaving Tibarn with 3 chapters of usefulness whilst giving Janaff and Ulki 8.
Please do, I want to improve this tier list as much as possible.
No, they all have pretty fail availability. Nailah has 5 chapters of usefulness (with my above logic that 4-E-2 onwards aren't advantages for these laguz), Tibarn and naesaale have 3 and Caineghas only has 2 (His E-3 is made up for the fact that red dragons barely scratch him. H4x if you ask me.) Edited by kirsche, May 31 2009, 03:36 AM.
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| +Ema Skye | Jun 2 2009, 01:54 AM Post #8 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Volug over Nolan in terms of tanking and raping? How? Nolan has the Earth affinity too, but he can support earlier and get massive Evd. He has nice defenses all around and no stat problems whatsoever. Volug has issues later in the game, while Nolan does not. Not having 1~2 range hurts him too much, as well as his lack of being at a high level. You make good points about Ike, and I think he's a contender for best game, but it's pretty debatable. I honestly think Tibarn is good competition for this, but you think Tibarn sucks... Janaff and Ulki do cool stuff when they're around (personally I think Ulki is way better btw because of his skill). But, once Tibarn joins, he's instantly a million times better than them and the strongest character you have. Ulki and Janaff don't do anything some other awesome flier can't do better. Availability shouldn't matter much. The tier list should function as a guide to players. It should tell them who they use, and your guide almost suggests that Tibarn shouldn't be used considering how low you have him. It should be based on how awesome a unit is when they are around. Tibarn is obviously one of the best options, all the time. Edited by Ema Skye, Jun 2 2009, 01:55 AM.
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MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH
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| Successor of Raphael | Jun 2 2009, 08:54 AM Post #9 |
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I noticed that you have this concept about "infinite exp" for Ike, but there's no such thing because when someone takes a kill, that's one less enemy for everyone else to take out or to weaken for exp beforehand. You should never run out of gold in this game, and there is no Funds rank. While it is true that you should be efficient with the gold you have, you're not even coming close to being a squandering player unless you buy stuff like Silver Longbows, earlygame stat-boosters for Magic and Skill, and other stuff, considering an "efficient" run. Now then, I'm going to go to a different area of the tier list. There is no way Mist is a full tier above Rhys. Possibly better than him, sure, but Rhys is not a low tier unit. Mist is in a good spot, and it is possible for her to go up, but Rhys is definitely not far behind. He comes at ??/3 with starting stats of: HP 27 Mag 23 Skl 16 Spd 14 Luck 21 Def 7 Res 24 Mist comes at 1 with HP 28 Str 8 Mag 13 Skl 13 Spd 15 Luck 16 Def 7 Res 16 The first two chapters that you use him are Fog of War, but this simply means that you can scout (or use a Torch) beforehand so he doesn't die. Rhys and Mist are the only two units that can access the best alternative well to combat experience: healing experience. You can just about guarantee that two of your units will be hurt in hard mode past maybe turn 1 of 3-P. This means that Rhys will be getting a steady 11 exp for each turn afterwards. Healing alone should net him a bit more than a level, though forgive me for not doing deep research to get exact turn data. It is a very fair to make the assumption that Mist will just about always maintain this level difference at the very best unless you use bonus experience on her and not Rhys. Offensively, you're looking at this: Rhys w/Ellight - Atk 28 Hit 137 Spd 14 Crt 8 Mist w/ Florete - Atk 22 Hit 129 Spd 15 Crit 21 Rhys hits Resistance with 1-2 range, Mist hits Defense with 1-2 range. Mist can only hope to do better against mages, which Rhys takes a lot less from in the first place. Defensively: Rhys - HP 27 Def 7 Avo 49 Mist - HP 28 Def 7 Avo 46 Virtually the same when they start out. Mist can potentially get +25 Avo and Crit, but that's unrealistic. Realistically, she's gonna get +15 at most from Ike and maybe Boyd, while Rhys can get +5 from Titania. So Mist's Avo hits 61 and her Crit hits 36, thus boasting respectable durability and offense for her level (still not enough to really damage stuff on Hard, however). Rhys gets 13 Crit and 54 Avo, which is also fairly respectable, but probably not enough to grant him survival after three physical threats. My argument, however, is that for the most part, Rhys will have better offense than Mist, so if you need something killed or weakened, Rhys can opt to do that for more than 11 exp. So can Mist, but in far less situations. Let's move on to the castle defense chapter, which is around 3-5. Let's also say that, from healing alone, Rhys and Mist have gained 6 levels. Because Rhys has better offense than Mist against anyone that isn't a mage, I will award Mist a level from kills and, to be fair here, give Rhys two levels of exp. We also know that they're going to be supporting somebody with at least a C, but I'm only gonna count their own affinities. Mist, 8 HP 30.8 Str 9.75 Mag 16.15 Skl 16.85 Spd 18.5 Luck 20.9 Def 8.75 Res 18.8 Rhys, ??/11 HP 30.2 Mag 25 Skl 18.8 Spd 16.8 Luck 25.8 Def 8.6 Res 30 Offense: Mist w/Florete Atk 24.75 Hit 137 Spd 18.5 Crt 38 (Real Atk will be 25 with C Water) Rhys w/Ellight Atk 30 Hit 145 Spd 16.8 Crt 14 (Real Atk will be 31 with C Fire) Again, Rhys attacks Resistance while Mist attacks Defense. Critting something with 18 Defense, for example, lets Mist hit for 21, while hitting it with Rhys is bound to do more since they're not as likely to have 12 Resistance on hand. Not to mention, while critting itself is still largely a luck-based thing on its own,this is factoring in +15 crit from Bond supports, and when Mist is not bonding with anyone, she's down to 23 crit. This is even smaller when you factor in the relatively decent Luck that enemies in this game have. In the end, she has a chance to crit while Rhys does not, but it won't be happening too often in the first place because her priority is to heal. Now, let's fastforward through Part 3. Let's say that they've gained a level through the Heal staff each and every chapter, no other factors involved. That's five levels on its own. With the presence of Reyson and Leanne, however, you can increase that by anywhere from 1.5x to about double their healing potential. This is very possible due to the fact that healers are very good targets to restore as opposed to a unit just moving somewhere else for another attack. We'll be generous with both and say that they gained three more levels because of herons. That's eight. Combat wise, I'll be even more fair to Mist and grant each of them two level ups throughout the whole thing. That's ten. Finally, anything that isn't Heal or Mend can be used. That's more experience from Physic, Restore, and whatever else you decide to get. We'll say two level ups from non-Heal uses. Altogether, from 3-5 through the endgame, I say that Mist and Rhys gain 12 level ups. She hits 20 here, but let's make her a level one Valk. Remember, no bonus experience has been taken into consideration. If I did take it into consideration, Rhys would win out more because he caps Magic and Resistance very early, thus leaving him to gain two stats that aren't Magic and Resistance (say... HP and either Skill or Speed), and he'd get it earlier, which would make him outclass Mist severely. Also, we'll give them an A support in their own affinity. Mist, level 1 Valk HP 39.6 Str 17.75 Mag 23.55 Skl 25.45 Spd 26 Luck 29.3 Def 16.75 Res 25.6 Florete: Atk 31 (33 w/A Water) Hit 160 Spd 26 Crt 42 (+15 from Ike and one more) Rhys, level 3 Saint HP 38.6 Mag 28.3 Skl 24.65 Spd 22.65 Luck 32.4 Def 14.8 Res 33.5 Shine: Atk 35 (37 w/ A Fire) Hit 154 (161 w/ A Fire) Spd 22 Crt 27 (+5 from Titania) Defensively Mist - HP 39 Def 16 (18 w/ A Water) Avo 96 (+15 from Ike and one more) Rhys - HP 38 Def 14 Av 81 (+5 from Titania) Mist wins defensively flat out because of stats and being able to use a horse. This defensive lead increases over time. However, Rhys, in comparison to Mist, is not far behind, and again, this involves bonds - without that, Mist has a mere lead of 5 Avoid, 1 HP, and 4 Defense (good) on Rhys. Offensively, Mist has 4 speed on Rhys, which opens up possible double attacks. Really though, this is only going to be a strong influence on those magic users. Generals shrug off her attacks, Wyverns do the same with a bit more speed, and nobody else that's significant gets doubled by Mist. Rhys only doubles mages and *maybe* Generals, but I haven't checked the numbers. More importantly, he's not getting doubled by anything that has 25 or less speed, which are just swordmasters and bosses. He still takes out good chunks of HP at a time thanks to hitting Resistance. I'm not going to go into too much detail anymore because Part 4 is the time when you stop doing this "hey everyone, let's progress" thing and you start maximizing units that are going into the final chapter while leaving everyone else for healing, tanking, and blocking purposes. Overall, the point is that Mist isn't really that much better than Rhys overall. Even if she gets a horse, this is not FE4. Many people always think that having a horse means a huge advantage over a foot healer. It depends on the situation. Clarine is statistically better off than Saul and far more better off than Ellen, and the horse helps. However, Serra still edges out Priscilla overall, despite Priscilla having a horse. I hope you didn't base this off of Mist having a horse over Rhys, because by the time Mist is promoting, without bonus experience, she has all of 7 maps to make use of it, and since I'm gonna assume she stays with Ike's group, one is a fog of war chapter where the movement is only good for Canto and nothing else, one is a place where footsoldiers can climb up and stay with horsemen, and 4-F-2 and 4-F-5 are hardly any difference at all. I do not believe that the horse + defensive advantage after promotion + a situational offensive advantage should place Mist so far above Rhys, or rather net Rhys a spot in low tier. Rhys still has a good Magic lead, which helps with healing and status-inducing, and he still puts that high magic to use on the offense. Overall, I think Mist probably slightly edges him out as a unit, but only slightly. Move Rhys to mid tier. In a nutshell, Soren has a better offense than both of them and can boast more single rounding kills. He promotes sometime before Mist and possibly Rhys and he gains the ability to heal, if you want him to hold back on killing. Attacks Resistance like Rhys, but better. Has no competition for Rexcalibur, since he's trumping Bastian. One of the better mages to bring to the final chapter, since Laura and Rhys only go for the staff level and he's competing with Calill and Ilyana for slots, depending on what you're looking for. Don't see why he's low tier. Ilyana should be lower mid tier. She gets the most chapters out of everyone else in the game. She touches Parts 1, 3 and 4. She's basically the authority on Thunder Magic, which may be the worst type for damage and accuracy but still hits Resistance and then aids her in killing White Dragons and Dheginsea. Being able to provide magical offense for the DB is a good thing, especially since Tormod should just be emergency and Micaiah shouldn't be doing it all herself. |
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| kirsche | Jun 2 2009, 01:27 PM Post #10 |
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Availability means nothing if you suck through most of it. Ilyana is nothing special in part 1 - a low durability unit in a low durability team. Just added baggage, really. Then in part 3, she rejoins you're worst unit. With little or no redeeming features. This carries on into part 4. Quite frankly, I'd rather field a unit other than her every time, meaning she's a detriment as she takes away a slot from a better unit. I can even see Ilyana going down.
When did i say that? Oh and you convinced me: Where should they both go, precisly? Personally, i think Mist should go down.
Nolan is vastly inferier to Volug both offensively and defensively. Take 1-5, Volug's starting chapter. Nolan, with a level per chapter, has 31.4 HP, 13.8str, 12.4Spd, 10.4 def, 4.6 res. Volug, on the other hand, has 49HP, 16 str, 19AS, 13 def, 7 res. Volug has an 18 HP lead, 7 spd lead, 3 def lead and 2 res lead. Volug with his fangs have 24 Atk, Nolan with a steel axe has 25 Atk. However, Nolan doesn't double. Volug does. Volug owns Nolan by far. Latre on, Nolan still has doubling issues (18 AS is not enougth to double as much as Volug). Volug doubles more than Nolan. Yet, Volug still retains his durabiltiy lead (level 20/2 Nolan has 14 def, 1 more than base Volug, but loses out on quite a bit of HP.) In part 3, Nolan still can't double even the slowest of enemies (Tigers with 16AS), yet Volug without halfshift has 26AS, enougth to double even the fastest cats. Volug also has higher HP still and his def is higher too (18 against Nolan's 15 def). Thus, Volug is better than Nolan for 9 chapters. Nolan is better than Volug for 11, yes. But part 4 counts for less as everyone is awesome at that point. So, overall, Volug >>>> Nolan. The tier list is to function to show which characters are better than others. Thus, Ulki and Janaff > Tibarn due to their increased usefulness. Edited by kirsche, Jun 2 2009, 01:33 PM.
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| Sentenal | Jun 2 2009, 05:32 PM Post #11 |
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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Whenever I see a FE10 Tier list, without Haar as #1, I'm very confused. The only times Haar isn't your best unit, or at least one of the most useful units you have, are like the last couple chapters in the game. Haar is better than Ike until Part 4, and even then Haar still has his Flyer stuff over him (very useful in the desert, or that one level with all the stairs and shit, or even the Swamp). Its also been a very long time since I've played it, but IIRC Stun activates more than Aether, doesn't it? |
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| Tripz | Jun 2 2009, 09:43 PM Post #12 |
Faucking Lethe in cat form^
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I agree with that to a point. Haar usually ends up with mediorce if not bad speed and has a pretty low speed cap. 
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| Formely known as:Tripz, Sailor Pluto | |
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| Sentenal | Jun 2 2009, 10:09 PM Post #13 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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I think he makes up for low SPD with his very high STR, and Poleaxes. Plus Stun is pretty much a OHKO. I dunno how he normally caps his stats, but if he caps things like STR or DEF early, BEXP would certainly help out his SPD. Jill is my late-game Wyvern, anyway. |
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| Successor of Raphael | Jun 2 2009, 10:16 PM Post #14 |
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Ilyana in part 1 is the main alternative mage to Micaiah. While Micaiah is Thani nuking and Leonardo is picking off the weakest units around, Ilyana can be striking most everyone else. In my opinion: 1-3 = 1 level from hitting high defense units (because you do not want Micaiah to take all of them) 1-4 = 1 level and some exp 1-5 = 2 levels by going east with whoever (I usually use Micaiah and Sothe), one of those because of exp from the last level 1-6-1 = 1 level and some exp 1-6-2 = 1 level and some exp 1-7 = 2 levels (good Ilyana level + exp from last) 1-8 = probably the only time she may not be getting a level, but some exp 1-F = promotion and likely level 2 The special thing about her is that she can carry stuff to Ike's team, most notably skills. Some people are hellbent on letting the part 1 team rot because of how much they "suck", so if you want to bring some skills to help Ike's group, she can at least do that, though I wouldn't say this has much bearing on her tier position. Anyway, see Soren, only make her live a tad longer because of Shade in exchange for Rhys-like offense. She also happens to make a decent candidate for the final chapter: she has access to a staff should you need it and she beats out many units in 4-F-3. I guess I'll retract my earlier statement and say that she might stay in low tier, but I personally feel she should be above Edward (a unit who needs to be even further down in low tier) and possibly Makalov, but I haven't made an argument for that yet.
Well, the infinite exp and gold parts I picked up from:
I believe they are both upper-mid tier units. Sorta like high tier in Part 3 to about middle of mid tier in part 4 (as you may not be using either one in the final chapter). You can order them however, as it really comes down to preference. Most accept Mist's durability and ability to get a horse as the winning edge. I say that this is brought down by her worse performance before promoting (which isn't happening until late Part 3 anyway), while Rhys never needs a promotion to be good at what he does, so I personally believe that Rhys > Mist, but again, totally up to you. Upper-mid for both, or no worse than middle of mid. Also! I completely forgot the other unit I wanted to lambaste: Geoffrey. He's not fit for mid tier. He is around for 9 maps, 5 if you count the final together, 4 if you consider the fact that he's outclassed by Oscar and Kieran for the final. In his starting chapter, he boasts a good offense, yes, but you know that everyone else will have more chances to be used. It makes more sense to train up Kieran and Makalov over blasting stuff with the Brave Lance. In fact, that Brave Lance would be put to better use with Marcia, because her offense is the one that really needs it (doubles just as much, if not more, and has lower Atk), or if you like him, Danved. He better hand it over before the chapter ends, anyway. You are not going to see him in 2-F. At least, I never do, thanks to clearing arrow-threats from in front of the boss, setting Elincia up, and then blasting the boss with Meteor + Amiti for an easy finish. If you want more exp, then yeah, you'll see him, but he will be insignificant. Better off weakening stuff for Makalov. He comes for one fight in Part 3. Kieran is, at worst, even with him. Marcia is still pretty good here. Calill will ultimately surpass him in usefulness. The other two aren't detriments if trained, but I suppose if you don't train them, they're about as good as Geoffrey, which isn't very good at all. You then see him in one of the largest exp chapters in the game. Part 4 = you focus on those going to 4-F = you're not using Geoffrey for anything but preventing an untimely death. He's bad because he's not a good contributor outside of Paragon. Good example of a good character turned bad because of circumstances out of his hands. Edited by Successor of Raphael, Jun 2 2009, 10:41 PM.
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| Tripz | Jun 2 2009, 10:29 PM Post #15 |
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Faucking Lethe in cat form^
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BEXP can fix almost anyone and make them wtfh4x. The thing about stun though is Haar usually has pretty low skill (if I remember right the Stun % runs on that stat not speed). |
| Formely known as:Tripz, Sailor Pluto | |
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