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| My Tier list; Hard mode | |
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| Topic Started: May 29 2009, 11:17 AM (587 Views) | |
| Sentenal | Jun 2 2009, 10:58 PM Post #16 |
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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I know, but I think units that max stats earlier naturally benefit more from BEXP, and its not like you won't use BEXP. Honestly I think the BEXP system in FE10 is gay, since it totally rapes stat averages, since you can't factor them in. Anyway, Stun activates based on SKL IIRC. After a quick check of stats, he starts at 24 SKL, and has a 70% SKL growth (lol). Units in this game make me 'lol' as much as FE4 units make me 'lol' |
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| Tripz | Jun 2 2009, 11:35 PM Post #17 |
Faucking Lethe in cat form^
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I guess my Haar just always gets RNG raped. 
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| Formely known as:Tripz, Sailor Pluto | |
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| Sentenal | Jun 3 2009, 12:15 AM Post #18 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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Actually, I think his problem is the Tier 2 cap at 26. But he can easily max at tier 3, with like 36 or something (don't remember cap there). |
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| kirsche | Jun 3 2009, 02:24 AM Post #19 |
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Haar has speed issues all game long. He doesn't ORKO anything until he promotes and he doesn't ORKO endgame either. His durability and the period when he DOES double is pwnage enougth to get him to 3rd.
This isn't an advantage for her and doesn't change her usefulness. She just isn't very durable and makes an already durablility lacking team worse. She also doesn't double much.
I'll put them together below Taur then. Geoffrey's as high as he is for being the best unit in 2-3, 3-9 and being really good in 2-E. He's also a good candidate for a corwn, which makes him usbale in 4-5 and 4-5 allows him to catch up to the rest of the team. Making him average again. |
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| Sentenal | Jun 3 2009, 02:33 AM Post #20 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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What mode are we talking about? Normal, I assume? Haar can double some things, like Armors. I don't remember if he can double other Wyverns or not. I do know that mother fucker has the Atk to OHKO a bunch of little bastard units. Like the thing for me is, even if he does have SPD issues for a long part of the game, he is still either your best, or one of the most useful characters you have in every single chapter you have him for, until part 4, where he is still doing fine. Flight+Durability+High Atk just make him such a good unit. He can go anywhere (almost), not die, and kill everything. Ike on the other hand, while he won't die either, and he will kill everything, his mobility isn't nearly as good, which is such a big advantage for Haar IMO. |
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| +Ema Skye | Jun 3 2009, 11:32 PM Post #21 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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I'd like to address Part 3 first, since Nolan's offense >>>> Volug's x ten trillion. He's got access to Beastfoe and one-shots every Laguz with a crossbow. Nolan has 1~2 range, and thus counters magic and bows and other ranged weapons, while Volug just does nothing but dodge or get hit. Nolan can use Paragon, which should be taken off of Tormod immediately, to level up more quickly, making his level disadvantage dwindle or disappear. Nolan can easily max a few stats quickly, making BEXP abuse very good for him, bumping up any stats he didn't cap in it yet. It seems you never really considered such things if you put Volug so much higher.
Their usefulness isn't enough to counter the fact that Tibarn has like double their offense and defense when he's around. Btw, I see where Sentenal is coming from. I think the best unit in the game is either Ike, Tibarn, or Haar. All are extremely broken. I still don't get why you can't see that about Tibarn, though. He is clearly your strongest character the entire time he is there. Edited by Ema Skye, Jun 3 2009, 11:33 PM.
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 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Sentenal | Jun 3 2009, 11:52 PM Post #22 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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Where is the Black Knight? He is by far the best unit by a million miles in every chapter he is in, and is required to ass rape everything on the map to complete that first one he is in. |
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| +Ema Skye | Jun 4 2009, 12:57 AM Post #23 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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I don't really think he should be considered the best character or even be on the list. A storyline occurance forces him to be necessary in one instance, but he's not needed in the final at all, even in hard mode. |
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MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH
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| Sentenal | Jun 4 2009, 01:53 AM Post #24 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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I can say "X amazing character" isn't needed, but that doesn't make them any less vastly superior to every other unit on the map. You can probably do a Haar-less playthrough, but that doesn't make Haar not the best-normal unit in the game. "Storyline occurrences" put you into a situation where you have certain units, and then you need to complete the chapter. It happens in every chapter in the game. You shouldn't be discriminating about Black units, that's racist. Just because a Black unit owns too hard, doesn't mean that his chapters shouldn't count, or that he shouldn't be ranked. |
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| kirsche | Jun 4 2009, 10:53 AM Post #25 |
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Volug can use beast foe to ORKo every enemy. Except he uses it better as he has enougth durability to survive multiple laguz attacks, unlike Nolan, who gets 2-3HKO'ed.
I thought you were talking about part 3? Besides, magic and bow users aren't common enougth to make this a significant advantage.
Volug can use Paragon too, you know, which would mean he gains level like a level 15 beorc in part 1, thus making a pwnage character even more pwnage.
Hard mode, bexp isn't in abundance. Cexp is the only common way to get exp.
I didn't consider giving him resources that everyone wants (beastfoe, Paragon, bexp), because that's favouritism.
Yes it is, They come in at a time when there's only 1 otehr flier - Haar. This makes them pwn 3-7 with the swamp, 3-8 with the rocks, 3-10 with the trees, 3-11 with the traps and 3-E due to more trees. They also have an arguably better part 4, too. They can help with Micaiah's group - something Tibarn can't do, Their part 4 performance is equal, realistically, until endgame, where Tibarn has 2 chapters lead over them (E-1 + E-4 and E-5), which is only slight thanks to the fact that Janaff and Ulki are also their. Janaff and Ulki's win in part 3 is significant as they produce contribution, unlike Tibarn.
Hard. I said that at the start, below the topic title. See, that's the problem - Haar's loe speed prevents him from killing everything. Ike still retains -good- mobility, and the ability to not die and to kill everything in sight. Thus Ike > Harar. In futher news, I'm putting Reyson above Ike. |
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| Successor of Raphael | Jun 4 2009, 12:45 PM Post #26 |
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See, being the "best" unit on a given chapter can be misleading. Like, by just saying that he's the best at those two chapters, it implies that he does have a lead on the rest of them, but it's large enough that it's something that's generally accepted as fact. I still believe that Geoffrey is being overrated. Starting out, he boasts a bit more attack and hit along with a Brave Lance. Kieran can easily make up for all of this but the Brave Lance while being a lower level. Geoffrey gets to hold onto Paragon, luckily for him. A part of determining how useful a unit is has to do with how much they can support their team without being much of a detriment, or how much they're really *doing* in general. 2-3, Geoffrey passes. 2-F, he's not really doing anything, so I'll leave it as a neutral. 3-9? Why is he still holding Paragon? You will not see it until 4-5. That said, you might as well make use of it, and anyone on your team can make use of his, as well as Astrid's since nobody really uses her. That's two Paragons for Kieran, Makalov, Danved, Marcia, and Calill to fight over. You'll probably end up with two out of Kieran, Marcia, and Calill. This is when Geoffrey stops trying to kill everything in sight. He's only taking exp away at this point because he should've promoted already with a Crown or pure exp, and there's really no reason to get him any higher unless you are bringing him to the Final. (You're not.) So, he does nothing all of Part 3. 4-5 comes, and he's just there to help the team by playing hit-and-run with a bow. Nobody cares about that. He's probably being benched. He's not going to the final. See, if you were to take the points I made, he's positive in his first chapter, slightly positive in the second, and neutral in his last two fights. That makes him sound like a good unit. This is a dangerous assumption to make, however, because: - By doing anything in the two chapters where he's leader in a town, he is taking exp away from the others that are more deserving of it than him (with at least two of them contenders for the Final Chapter). He puts it to use in Part 2 (if only a tiny bit in 2-F, if at all), but it is completely wasted in Part 3 because he's got all the power he will ever need and two units have Paragon. Anything else is really either neutral exp-taking at absolute best or flat out stealing - Mid-tier units usually comprise of units that aren't harmful to your team while providing good reasons to be used for their entirety in exchange for something like having to level a bit, not dominating flat off hand, not being around too much, losing out a bit to other units of their kind, and so on. Geoffrey isn't harmful to the team in Part 2 and 3 (since he is required)... or at least, he can remain this way if you allow the better units (half of his army) to focus on killing. The more he fights, the more exp gets put to a lesser cause. It's not a huge problem in his case, but it does do a bit of unnecessary damage to units like Calill that need all the exp they can get so they can be very good later on - He's only guaranteed three chapters and he only gets one other non-final chapter, one of which he may not show up in time if you know how to kill, one of which he's not getting fielded for any good reason. That's two guaranteed chapters where he does good on his own but so do the units that matter, and two chapters where he's doing nothing, practically or literally. I would best compare him to Volke, only give Volke even less chapters while giving him a special niche that should keep him above Geoffrey. Lower mid or low. EDIT: Just wanted to chip in at something. You call it favoritism to give Nolan Beastfoe and Paragon. (Might as well throw in stuff like Resolve, Celerity (which is what Tormod is carrying, as Paragon is a free skill), Discipline, etc.) Favoritism would be taking a bad unit like Edward and giving him Resolve so he can be as good as Zihark after something mauls him. Or giving Micaiah Celerity. Or promoting Laura and giving her Resolve + Wrath. Nolan is not the same. He is easily the most viable of all non-required units to be chosen to go to the final chapter, with the exception of Nailah. He doesn't even need to fight for the Urvan. With this in mind, it would make sense to give him Beastfoe or Paragon because, unlike everyone else who wants it so they can show off, he wants it so he can ensure wreckage in the final chapter. Volug, on the other hand, does not need, let alone deserve, Paragon. Nevermind the fact that outside of HP and Luck, the two stats not doubled by a transformation, he has low growths, with his highest being Speed at 40%. No, in case you were gonna say it, this does not make things better for him as a laguz, because he's growing twice as slow as everyone else in Part 3, which negates any potential argument for equating it to, say, a speed growth of 80% on a beorc. He's better off being left alone to grow normally while using something like Howl to make up for his weaknesses rather than being "favored." Edited by Successor of Raphael, Jun 4 2009, 01:01 PM.
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| Sentenal | Jun 4 2009, 04:54 PM Post #27 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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A Hard Mode Tier list? If this was any other FE game other than FE10, I'd agree about making, but Hard Mode is retarded. I mean, they even removed Weapon Triangle from Hard Mode. Mode that I care least about. |
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| Tino | Jun 5 2009, 12:16 AM Post #28 |
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Mode that's also the most difficult and therefore most interesting to discuss, too. Who cares about trivial things such as the weapon triangle? I mean, they can make someone's avo reliable at times, but I think it just adds another challenge to the game. |
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| Successor of Raphael | Jun 5 2009, 12:42 AM Post #29 |
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Because there's no reason for people like Edward to lose their disadvantage against lances, still retain a good advantage against axers because of the nature of axes vs. swordies, and overall seem slightly better than they really are as opposed to characters who have *two* weapons that can force at least a neutral on their own at pretty much all times. Basically, it helps single-weapon units, or at the very least, it hurts a good advantage that characters that can use two weapons have. It's not trivial. Light mages get bumped up because there are few dark mages for them to KO and, seeing how they generally wall off magic attacks in general, they are basically guaranteed to hit everything in the game that isn't on a higher ledge. On normal mode, Bishops of a proper level could actually miss Sages and their damage was pretty bad, while Hard Mode basically gives sages the same power and hit against bishops while Bishop gain better hit. Some of this may actually be somewhat incorrect, but that's the idea I'm trying to get across. Edited by Successor of Raphael, Jun 5 2009, 12:46 AM.
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| kirsche | Jun 5 2009, 02:25 AM Post #30 |
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I moved Mist to the bottom of mid - closer to Rhys and moved Geoffrey down to low, just above Makalov.
What advantage against axe users? Now that the sword users lose their avo boost against axe users it's likely that the axe users hit against the low-def mymidons like Edward. Meaning it's harder for units like Edward to survive.
That's flawed logic, you give resources to make the next chapter as easy as possible, not to improve a character. Paragon makes Volug grow like a level 15 beorc, which is incredibly quick in part 3. That's faster than a level 20/3 Nolan does. Not to mention that since he gets 2 per 1 stat up, he grows faster than the likes of Nolan. |
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