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| Ignorance in the United States of America | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 8 2009, 06:55 AM (341 Views) | |
| +Reaver | Sep 8 2009, 06:55 AM Post #1 |
Troll
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"I believe this [The United States of America] is the greatest country on Earth, and I try to teach that to my children. ... I don't want them hearing that there's a fundamental flaw with the country and the kids need to go forward to fix it." -Bill Hogsett, concerned parent (Source) Discuss the ignorance in general or the ignorance in context. I would highly recommend reading the speech so we don't have to clarify the speech is not a partisan address to the youth of the nation. I can understand arguments blasting the speech for logistical purposes, although even if this event were pushed to a later date I can only assume that people would still be incredibly annoyed/irritated. |
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| Attila | Sep 8 2009, 10:59 AM Post #2 |
 
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For now I'm just going to comment on that parent's quote that you posted, and I'll read the speech later when I'm not sleep deprived and nervous. For one, believing the United States is the "greatest country on Earth" shows an incredible lack of either 1. sense or 2. knowledge of history, but that is subjective, no matter how much I can back up my argument. The main flaw of it I will sum up. I am a staunch nationalist for my own people, but I am a realist and I believe in efficiency. It is not efficient to simply cover up the flaws of one's culture, society, race, whatever, in order to make it look better. No, rather you should expose the flaws, when appropriate and in a strategic way, to give people, especially young, the initiative to contribute something and make it even better. Nothing is perfect. Anyone who would create that illusion for themselves, for their children, or anyone else is undeserving of any position anywhere at all. It is simply more back-up for my first "subjective" statement. |
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| Captain Bravo | Sep 8 2009, 01:37 PM Post #3 |
You play my nerves like strings
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I'm getting really sick of the Obama bashing. Everywhere I look, I hear it. People need to shut up. Americans need to stop being ridiculous and placing blame on everyone's heads and actually start proposing solutions if they don't like the ones being implemented, rather than labeling Obama a terrible leader. It's getting old. We did the same thing to Bush, and now people just can't kick the habit. |
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| +Hollie | Sep 8 2009, 02:28 PM Post #4 |
Resident Brit
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I'm confused why parents would object to their children hearing this speech. It basically boils down to "work hard in school and get a good job so you can help people/our country". How is that a bad thing to encourage in kids? America is not a perfect country. Trying to tell kids that is simply stupid. I could understand parents' complaints (somewhat) if Obama's message was political, but it really isn't. |
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| Captain Bravo | Sep 8 2009, 04:00 PM Post #5 |
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You play my nerves like strings
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Yeah, I guess the issue was that several people were speculating on the content of the speech before it was released. All this "Obama-is-a-socialst-pig" bull is the cause of the scare. The thing is, like it or not, Obama is the President of the United States. Rather than dividing the nation and undermining the very structure that NEEDS to be established in this particular time in the US, Republicans are busy messing with the minds of the idiotic masses with their agendas for 2012. It's selfish, and it's hurting the country more than it's helping. Someone PLEASE make them shut up. |
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| Sentenal | Sep 8 2009, 05:01 PM Post #6 |
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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Oh please, give me a break, like the Democrats weren't doing the exact same thing for 8 years under Bush? This nation has been divided right now the middle ever since before the 2004 elections. Republicans have come out with ideas. However, the super majority partisan Democrats in Congress won't give any the time of day. Or do you think that since the Democrats one, the Republicans shouldn't propose any ideas, and simply blindly go along with Liberal policies simply because they lost, regardless if their ideals and principles tell them that such policies are flawed? Bipartisanship is something where both parties come to agree on something in the middle. Bipartisanship isn't one party completely agreeing with another side's plans. And from what I can see, it is that second, flawed definition that Obama seems to think bipartisanship is. As far as I'm concerned, most of the policies coming forth from the Administration and the Democrat Congress will hurt the country far worse than simply not doing anything. Now with the parent, I don't disagree that America is the greatest country on this planet. The fundamentals of this country are not flawed. That doesn't mean the country has no flaws, however. Nothing is perfect. |
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| Attila | Sep 8 2009, 05:39 PM Post #7 |
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It is pointless to propose solutions that will never be carried out. At Sentenal, the Republicans and Democrats are no longer fundamentally different at all. Different masks for the same corrupt, decadent insanity. Also, I can point out a number of flaws in the fundamentals of the Unites States, first and foremost the obsession with the concept of liberty and freedom. It is a fake a thing, such an obsession is a reactionary attack on the Judeo-Christian tyranny that plagued Europe since its introduction and spread by the ruthless actions of the church. Many of America's so-called fundamentals are just flawed reactionary measures, perhaps made in good spirit, albeit ignorant mind as well, but not at all viable. |
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| Kitty | Sep 8 2009, 07:31 PM Post #8 |
Is such a trend setter :D
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American politics are starting to make Russian politics sound nice. And here we have Siberian Labor Camps as a solution to political arguments... |
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| Crysta | Sep 8 2009, 07:47 PM Post #9 |
yay for conformity!
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Just because the Democrats did it with Bush, doesn't make it any more right for the Republicans to do it with Obama. It's still stupid, just under a different name. The speech wasn't political. It's just the stupid trigger-happy partisan games we'll always play because we're too gung-ho about our own political ideas to allow the notion that the other side might have some merit. I never got the impression that Bush was making this country a fascist nation; the idea that Obama is making it a socialist nation is just as laughable. |
~ Crysta, Zombie Queen
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| Soja | Sep 8 2009, 07:50 PM Post #10 |
Gentle Water, Crashing Waves
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It doesn't matter. My county's school system blocked Obama's speech.  Considering all that the United States has done for the world in its very short 200 year history, I'd dare say that the pro-Americans have a viable argument on which to say that the United States is the greatest nation on Earth. That's not to say that we are completely innocent of our own sins as a nation, but I think the world would be much worse off without us had our forefathers failed in 1776. 
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| Crysta | Sep 8 2009, 07:58 PM Post #11 |
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yay for conformity!
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Oh yeah. And America is awesome. We'll pwn you while you sleep! On Christmas! 8| |
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~ Crysta, Zombie Queen
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| Wirtjr | Sep 8 2009, 08:03 PM Post #12 |
The Train Conductor to Hell
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Heh, America being the greatest nation on the planet. One that's a bit pretentious no matter which way you look at it. Two its not really true. Yes we have some good points, but we have our share of bad. Slavery, the near annihilation and relocation of the Five Civilized Tribes, and various other things. Greatest? I don't think so. Great? Yes. Because while we have a long list of "sins" other countries who have been around for far longer have a long list of bad stories. |
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| Soja | Sep 8 2009, 08:12 PM Post #13 |
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Gentle Water, Crashing Waves
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| Attila | Sep 8 2009, 08:19 PM Post #14 |
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Nobody seems to understand the fact that America has been one of the main forces between the rapid decadent modernization and globalization of the current world, destroyer of cultures, etc. |
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| Askio | Sep 8 2009, 08:20 PM Post #15 |
Crit McGee on Speed
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I don't disagree. But it isn't just America that turns away from its problems. Every country has had some stage like this, it just came before America existed. That being said, people should be far more educated today then before, but politicians tend to care more for themselves in the end. The only way I see this changing is a completely cleansing so too speak, and for the US to finally grow a backbone and kick big corporations in the ass. But I feel Obama has the right idea, but the Democratic Congress does not, which pisses me off, especially when Obama does try to work with conservatives, then gets blasted by liberals for actually being reasonable. |
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