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| Come in Ledley; Your time is up | |
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| Topic Started: 20 Sep 2009, 20:31 (359 Views) | |
| DK | 20 Sep 2009, 20:31 Post #1 |
1882
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We all love Ledders, no doubt. But we cannot persist in building our team around a player that clearly is getting more and more frail, and less and less intune with his teammates. Discuss? |
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| ricky | 20 Sep 2009, 20:47 Post #2 |
FA Vase Winner
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Rubbish! Like it or not mate, he's the best we have, and to be honest I think he is the best of the best. I don't think even the best CB's in the country (Terry & Rio) could play as well as Ledley does with his knee problem. He is not on a lengthy contract but he is on big money, and so he should be, because that bloke would run through brick walls for Tottenham! If we had more like him we'd be well on our way to the glory days. He is the modern day Dave Mackay for Spurs and that is saying something. Just because Ledley pulls up in a game and cant play more than 2 games in a week, you want to show him the door! For a time when there is no loyalty in football, Ledley has Tottenham Hotspur running through his veins. If we did that to Ledley I would be disgusted, he should have a job for life at our club if he wants it. |
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| Whoami? | 20 Sep 2009, 20:58 Post #3 |
Seoul Man
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| Sweatybum | 20 Sep 2009, 21:17 Post #4 |
uber-Spurs-nerd
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I agree with Smashy. There's no denying the guy is a Tottenham legend but for the second game in a row he has pulled up at half time with a niggling injury, due no doubt to the fact that he can't train during the week. We have to rely on Ledders at the moment 'cos of injuries to Woody and Dawson, but as soon as those two become fit we should be looking to develop a central defensive partnership of Bassong and Woody with Dawson and Ledley as subs. I feel his injury is having a derogatory effect on the team. It's fine in the first half when he's playing but when he goes off at half time we have to move Corluka to the centre and bring on Hutton at right back. We need an established pairing of central defenders that we can RELY on and not having to wait until half an hour before kick off to see if Ledley is fit or not. No room for sentiment in football I'm afraid Ricky, not if we're serious about breaking into the top four. 
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| Dee | 20 Sep 2009, 21:28 Post #5 |
I'm a Malteser
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Not many people agreed with me when I said we needed at last one really good CB as we couldn't rely on either Ledley or Woodgate to stay fit over a full season. Although both are class acts, it is leaving us vunerable in a critical area. Dawson is good, Bassong is OK, Charlie is not good enough, and after that we are running out of decent options. Athough no-one more than me appreciates everything that Ledley has done for the club, there is a niggling doubt in my mind, whether he would have stayed with us if he didn't have this problem with his knee or would he have gone seeking a Champions League side. |
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| Sweatybum | 20 Sep 2009, 21:38 Post #6 |
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uber-Spurs-nerd
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Ledley is Tottenham through and through Dee, and has blue & white blood coursing through his veins. He is a product of our academy system and sadly it looks like injury is going to bring a premature end to his career. The lack of training in between games is having an effect on him which is causing him to get injured during the rigours of a match. No doubt his future is still with Tottenham Hotspur Football Club, however I can see that future being in a coaching or ambassadorial role rather than a playing one. Sad for Ledley but life goes on. No one player is bigger than the club, no matter how long they've played for the first team. |
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| Dee | 20 Sep 2009, 21:59 Post #7 |
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I'm a Malteser
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So were the likes of Judas, Teddy and Keano supposingly. I'm not saying he doesn't do his best for us, but I just wonder if he would have been as loyal if Man U or Inter Millan for example had come calling. Just a thought. |
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| Whoami? | 20 Sep 2009, 22:47 Post #8 |
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Seoul Man
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Keano? As in Robbie Keane? |
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| DK | 21 Sep 2009, 00:50 Post #9 |
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Yes, but not as first choice centre back, that's my point. |
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| DK | 21 Sep 2009, 00:52 Post #10 |
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Exactly. |
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| GO! | 21 Sep 2009, 02:49 Post #11 |
bas***d!
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But when he's playing he's undoubtedly the best we have. Build for the future obviously but not at the expense of the present. |
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| ricky | 21 Sep 2009, 09:31 Post #12 |
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FA Vase Winner
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Lets not get ahead of our selves boys, we'll be lucky to make the top 6. One step at a time lets be realistic. |
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| DK | 21 Sep 2009, 11:23 Post #13 |
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So we should persist with a key player that cannot be relied upon to play, instead of going out and buying what we need, i.e. a decent centre back that can play 40 games a season, and letting Ledley do some other job in the club such as helping Tim & Les on the coaching team? I'm not saying we get rid of him TODAY, as clearly we can't. But equally we can't ignore the fact that, legend or not, having Ledley in and out of the team like this is causing more problems than it is solving. |
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| Butch | 21 Sep 2009, 14:52 Post #14 |
League Cup Winner
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So who do you bring in to replace him? Ledley is by far the best cb this country has had in years and its a crying shame that he has had the injury problems that will bring an early end to his career. The club will keep him onboard in some role but for now while he can still contribute in some way we need him. |
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| AT | 21 Sep 2009, 15:46 Post #15 |
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Ledders is arguably the best CB in the Prem on his day. Where is the logic in effectively discarding him? Bear in mind two things: 1) Who is to say a 100% fully fit Ledley - who was able to play 50+ games a season - would not have picked up that injury yesterday? 2) If Woody and Daws were both fit this wouldn't have been an issue. We would have probably started with Woody & King, and Daws would have come on for the injury. I think we should be looking at this more as a wider squad injury crisis, rather than a Ledley King crisis. Anyway, I've said for ages that despite all the big name departures from the Lane in recent years, none of them come close to how gutted I'll be when Ledley finally hangs up his boots. Hopefully that won't be for a long time to come. |
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| ricky | 21 Sep 2009, 16:17 Post #16 |
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FA Vase Winner
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Totally disagree with smash on this one. |
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| rubecula | 21 Sep 2009, 17:48 Post #17 |
Squirrel Nutkin Lives
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Remember McGrath? he had two dodgy knees, smoked forty a day and never trained much. Yet he was still one of the best in the country. Class is timeless. Mind you if he is always too badly hurt to play, in the modern game, then in all honesty I think he should be replaced. |
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| Whoami? | 21 Sep 2009, 18:02 Post #18 |
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Seoul Man
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Class is permanent, form is temporary. Ledley's class! |
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| DK | 21 Sep 2009, 18:20 Post #19 |
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1882
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He can't and never will. How often is that, though? But they aren't, and therefore it is. It's not Ledley's fault as such; the club knew full well that we were going to be without 2 centre backs until well into the season, and decided that they would save a bit of dough and only bought Bassong which then gave us 2 centre backs plus Dervitte as back up. Dervitte was then promptly shipped out on loan again, so now whenever we get a problem we have to rely on Charlie at CB which can be quiet painful viewing, especially as Hutton is looking quite naff at the whole defending thing too. The thing is, both King and the club know that he is f**ked, that he's never going to play more than about 30 games a season, and that we need more than that. I'm not sure who is being more of an ostrich about it, the player, the club or the fans, but this problem is going to get worse and we are going to have to get someone in, and the sooner the better. It's a shame we didn't snaffle Lucas Neill til the end of the season, he has experience and could have been a good leader at the back. No doubt he 'isn't good enough' to be a Spurs player but he could have done a job. It's not about 'discarding' King, it's about doing what's right for the club if we want to move forward. As it stands, he can play a very maximum one game a week. Are you still going to be following the same rhetoric when he can only play for 45 mins a week? When does it become unrealistic and overly sentimental? It already has in my mind. King is a legend, and always will be, but his body is f**ked. He should stay, I agree, but he cannot be considered first choice CB any more, not in my mind anyway. |
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| DK | 21 Sep 2009, 18:20 Post #20 |
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A f**ked knee is pretty permanent. |
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| DK | 21 Sep 2009, 18:21 Post #21 |
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It's all about opinions Ricky, that's why this place exists. 
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| AT | 21 Sep 2009, 19:46 Post #22 |
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Dude, I haven't got specific stats, but I think we're all in agreement that we play better and pick up more points when Ledley plays. Not really rocket science then, is it? |
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| Whoami? | 21 Sep 2009, 20:18 Post #23 |
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Seoul Man
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Simples. |
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| DK | 21 Sep 2009, 20:34 Post #24 |
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1882
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So we can expect to be good for about 30 games this season? Fantastic. |
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| anydange | 21 Sep 2009, 20:47 Post #25 |
UEFA Cup Winner
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we've been s**t for 2 so far. so that means we only have 6 more games to be crap.... |
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| DK | 21 Sep 2009, 20:56 Post #26 |
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1882
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Don't forget the cup games, dange. |
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| Dee | 21 Sep 2009, 22:01 Post #27 |
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I'm a Malteser
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Smashy, I'm with you all the way. Neither of us are saying he isn't the best when fit, but we can't carry on like this, not if we want to be a serious threat to top four. Happy to give him a job behind the scenes in a few year's time, if it makes everyone feel better, but our problem is here and now - we need a couple of reliable centre backs |
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| Kebabyuchenko | 21 Sep 2009, 22:13 Post #28 |
War. It rocks.
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Can I donate my knees to Ledley? He clearly needs them more than I do... Kebabyuchenko xxx |
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| Doygul | 21 Sep 2009, 23:03 Post #29 |
Get rid of Jenas
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i was having this conversation yesterday even before he pulled up injured, when he plays he's arguebly the best in the country even without training. we've played 7 times this season and Ledley has been involved 5 times twice having to go off and be replaced not really a good statistic! So if Ledley plays 30 times and continues to do what he has so far he will be taken of 12 times throughout the season, i don't think any single one of us can say hand on heart thats acceptable even for Ledley! Both times hes been taken off have had nothing to do with his knee. it was groin and hamstring ultimately meaning his body is becoming weakened by the lack of training and he's struggling to even play 2 games over 2 weeks! And whats to say this isn't going to get worse over the course of the season, it's not fair on us and it's certainly not fair on him! So i agree with Smash and Dee when is enough enough, when does Ledley realise his body can't cope with the demands of the premiership (because let's be honest if it could, he would be avaliable more than once a week!!!) Dee asked the question what would have happened if he was fit and big clubs came him for him, i certainly think he would have considered an offer from a CL club... This has been an issue for alongtime and the club have decided to ignore it, well we can't ignore it when we have 1 recognised CB in Bassong fit for next week (that's if he recovers!!) Why can't they operate and put something between kneecap and bone to stop the bones rubbing??? Edited by Doygul, 21 Sep 2009, 23:04.
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| AT | 22 Sep 2009, 03:40 Post #30 |
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But we already have two reliable CB's in Woody and Dawson. Oh wait a minute, they're injured. I suppose that's Ledley's fault too. 
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| Doygul | 22 Sep 2009, 11:20 Post #31 |
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Get rid of Jenas
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No it's not Ledleys fault but to go in to a season with 1 fit CB Bassong is really stupid!!! We all know King has problems and we all knew Daws and Woody would be out for sometime so for the club to ignore this and think we can rely on King is unrealistic... IMO King can't be and shouldn't be considered as 1 of Redknapps recognised CB's we need at least 4 central defenders avaliable to play week in week out 2 or 3 times a week if needs be and King can't be classed as fit until his knee able to cope with training and playing which it never will!! Im not saying clubs don't have injuries but theirs a chance everytime King steps onto that field he might not be able to play again if he causes some serious damage to himself. |
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| GO! | 22 Sep 2009, 12:52 Post #32 |
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bas***d!
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Its like going into a race but leaving your fastest car in the garage in case you smash it up. Ledley is the best we have in his position, theres no disputing that is there? As much as I like Dawson, when they're both fit would you really play him ahead of King? If Ledders is willing to risk ending up in a wheelchair then thats his prerogative but imo, if he's fit then he has to be first choice. We all agree that when he plays theres not many central defenders around that come near to his standard so why not utilise him as and when we can? There was one particular moment on the weekend where he received the ball with two of their blokes on him. He turned back towards goal and looked like he was going to run himself into trouble, I was thinking "what the hell are you doing?" but with a little jink and a shimmy, he made the attackers look like mugs and managed to clear the danger without even putting the ball out of play. Its obviously frustrating but lets face it, unless we're a Champions league side, we're never going to attract another defender as good as Ledley. He's hardly a liability when he's playing so imo we have to get what we can out of him while we can. |
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| pat | 22 Sep 2009, 15:33 Post #33 |
pat
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It may be time for Ledley to call it a day sadly. He is just getting injured too often. I hope he can get over it all, as he is a great defender but somehow I don't think he will |
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| n17yids | 22 Sep 2009, 17:50 Post #34 |
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Pub Team
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i agree with you on this one ledley is world class even with his bad knee. if fabio cappello wants to pick him bad knee or not. not only that when he puts on our shirt we get 110% all the time only if he could play 30 league games we would be top 4 ledley is a yid 4 life come on u spurs |
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| AT | 22 Sep 2009, 18:04 Post #35 |
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I actually believe in my heart of hearts that he is quietly working towards his dream of playing at the World Cup next year. And if that does happens and he gets a game or two there, I wouldn't be surprised if he decides to retire that summer. I'm sure Daniel Levy and Harry are in on it too. Just my thoughts anyway. |
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