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Was Haunting Ground supposed to be Clock Tower 4?
Topic Started: Nov 25 2007, 01:45:41 PM (1,958 Views)
ReijiKido99
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I think there are too many similarities for it NOT to have been a sequel. But then, I wonder why they changed the name? Obviously it had nothing to do (story wise) with the other games, true. But neither did CT3. It's not like they would have been doing anything that they didn't already do with CT3. And even though Demento / Haunting Ground had its own story, there were some definite similarities to CT3 in that regard as well.

Does anyone know how Haunting Ground sold compared to Clock Tower 3? I wonder, then, if it would have sold more had it been released as CT4. I know that CT3 was disappointing in terms of sales, so perhaps that really is why they changed the name. I always wonder about that whole "low sales" stigma of CT3, though - I mean, even the original games couldn't have sold ALL THAT well, could they? It seemed, even back then, to be a pretty obscure series, at least in the US...
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WARMASTER
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demento has gotten quite the following.
and i can see why, its an excellent game.
right now online prices for this game are high (compared to clock tower 3).
the reason for this is that, instead of making a sequel for the "failure" that was ct3 as initially developed, they made a whole new game.[redit][/redit]
Edited by WARMASTER, Aug 31 2008, 06:01:26 PM.
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ReijiKido99
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Demento definitely has a following, true. BUT, it was also released with less copies of the actual game being manufactured from what I remember. This could be because they were unhappy with how CT3 sold and were weary of how Demento would sell. Less copies being made = less of a financial loss if the game doesn't sell...

This would also explain why CT3 is easier to obtain than Demento / HG, because there are probably MORE copies of CT3 in existence...
Edited by ReijiKido99, Aug 31 2008, 06:16:27 PM.
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WARMASTER
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how can ct3 be easier to obtain if there are less copies of it?

en fin...
im searching far and wide for a copy of demento, rule of rose and skygunners.
but they are so damn rare (and therefore: expensive)
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enigmaopoeia
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I decided to check up using Japanese search engines and they mostly confirm what mrbates said in an earlier posts. Some review websites state that Demento [Haunting Ground's title in Japan.] was supposed to be Clock Tower 4, but got scrapped early in the process. Unfortunately there aren't any good official sources to back up said claim, but I guess we can take their word for it.

Trying to figure out the sales figures of each game, which I had never thought of that before -- thanks for bringing that up, Reiji. So far, I was only able to see Amazon.com's rankings:

Haunting Ground = Amazon.com Sales Rank: #5,069 in Video Games
Clock Tower 3 = Amazon.com Sales Rank: #2,016 in Video Games

Clock Tower 3 is easily obtainable at New Jersey where I live because at my local ShopRite, they are selling [NO LIE!] about 8 copies of the game factory-sealed. And you can always find a used copy of it at GameStop. As for Haunting Ground and Rule of Rose, they are a bit more harder to find equally. But some copies of it do exist. But, for example, if I were to look into 10 GameStops here -- 1 of them would have Haunting Ground or Rule of Rose used, while 4 of them would have Clock Tower 3 used.[redit][/redit]
~ enigmaopoeia @ Don't Cry Jennifer
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ReijiKido99
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In response to Warmaster - Meant to say MORE copies of CT3 in existence, sorry.[redit][/redit]
Edited by ReijiKido99, Aug 31 2008, 06:15:02 PM.
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enigmaopoeia
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Found this thread: http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=9011

SALES FIGURES FOR APRIL 2004: PS2 CLOCK TOWER 3 $14,231 859

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Dated April 2003: "Through Reuters Japan, it was today revealed that development of 18 upcoming titles from Capcom has stopped as a result of the poor performance of some of its more recently released games. Coming on the heels of an announcement in which the company spoke briefly on its financial earnings for the period ending March 31st 2003, the company revealed that titles as Chaos Region and Product Number 03, as well as a host of others, didn’t sell well. Moreover, titles such titles as Devil May Cry 2, Clock Tower 3 and Resident Evil Zero fell below expected sales figures. While the format all of the would-be 18 games would appear on, it was said that ten of them would have beenon the GBA platform."
SOURCE: http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=190778

Sales figures of Clock Tower 3 in comparison to Haunting Ground, I dunno what month and year these are for, maybe January 2008?:
- Clock Tower 3 - 81k
- Haunting Ground - 31k
SOURCE: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169492

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~ enigmaopoeia @ Don't Cry Jennifer
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ReijiKido99
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Very interesting, enig. Do you happen to know if those last sales figures (CT3's 81k vs HG's 31k) are regional figures or worldwide? I would guess US maybe, since I do believe CT3 sold more than that in Japan alone.
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MrMasonW2DS


Just taking the word of the sites mentioned by Enig and of the Wiki article, I voted yes. But I sorta believe that very early on, Haunting Ground became something else that was still very intentionally related to Clock Tower.

Having just beaten the game (literally, less than three hours ago) it seems to me like Capcom realized they couldn't very well make it a sequel, because it's almost like they were fixing what they saw as mistakes they'd made with Clock Tower 3. There are too many similarities between the two games' plots to be mere coincidence, I think.

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Now, many of those similarities I would chalk up to merely gameplay similarities or genre similarities, if not for the fact that Capcom made both games and surely would have been deeply aware of these similarities. It's almost like someone at Capcom thought, "What if we took the basic outline of CT3's plot and tweaked it so as to better capture the spirit of the original Clock Tower games, like fans have been asking for? Because, it seems to me at least, that Haunting Ground is, in many ways, what a less fantastical, more confined and lonely version of Clock Tower 3 would look like. If you strip Clock Tower 3 of multiple (particularly time travelling) locations and the human interaction Alyssa has in Dennis, it'd already begin to feel more like Haunting Ground.

Hewie is the biggest addition, but then, since once production began, Haunting Ground wasn't supposed to be a Clock Tower game anymore, that big difference could be explained easily, as well as by the fact that Hewie gives Fiona a friend but while still making you feel isolated, since you have no human companions...

So I guess I think Haunting Ground is not only possibly a tribute to Clock Tower despite not being released as a Clock Tower, but a "what-might-have-been" regarding Clock Tower 3. And though I'm glad CT3 exists, if Haunting Ground is a "what-might-have-been" then it certainly captures the spirit of the Clock Tower duology better, particularly the isolated "I may be the only sane living person within these walls" feel of The First Fear. Haunting Ground is awesome enough for me whether it does or doesn't have anything at all to do with Clock Tower; but it's still a very interesting thought if it does (in spirit).
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ReijiKido99
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MrMasonW2DS
Sep 3 2008, 12:45:27 AM
Just taking the word of the sites mentioned by Enig and of the Wiki article, I voted yes. But I sorta believe that very early on, Haunting Ground became something else that was still very intentionally related to Clock Tower.

Having just beaten the game (literally, less than three hours ago) it seems to me like Capcom realized they couldn't very well make it a sequel, because it's almost like they were fixing what they saw as mistakes they'd made with Clock Tower 3. There are too many similarities between the two games' plots to be mere coincidence, I think.

Spoiler: click to toggle


Now, many of those similarities I would chalk up to merely gameplay similarities or genre similarities, if not for the fact that Capcom made both games and surely would have been deeply aware of these similarities. It's almost like someone at Capcom thought, "What if we took the basic outline of CT3's plot and tweaked it so as to better capture the spirit of the original Clock Tower games, like fans have been asking for? Because, it seems to me at least, that Haunting Ground is, in many ways, what a less fantastical, more confined and lonely version of Clock Tower 3 would look like. If you strip Clock Tower 3 of multiple (particularly time travelling) locations and the human interaction Alyssa has in Dennis, it'd already begin to feel more like Haunting Ground.

Hewie is the biggest addition, but then, since once production began, Haunting Ground wasn't supposed to be a Clock Tower game anymore, that big difference could be explained easily, as well as by the fact that Hewie gives Fiona a friend but while still making you feel isolated, since you have no human companions...

So I guess I think Haunting Ground is not only possibly a tribute to Clock Tower despite not being released as a Clock Tower, but a "what-might-have-been" regarding Clock Tower 3. And though I'm glad CT3 exists, if Haunting Ground is a "what-might-have-been" then it certainly captures the spirit of the Clock Tower duology better, particularly the isolated "I may be the only sane living person within these walls" feel of The First Fear. Haunting Ground is awesome enough for me whether it does or doesn't have anything at all to do with Clock Tower; but it's still a very interesting thought if it does (in spirit).
I think your detailed explanation hits the nail on the head big time.

I would like to add, though, that it always seemed like Hewie in Haunting Ground was basically the equivalent of Alyssa's Rooder powers in CT3. Without these two things, both heroines would be defenseless against their respective attackers, and yet with them they are able to overcome all.

The main difference here is that the Rooder portion of CT3 is much more involved in the game's plot, while Hewie has little to do with most of the happenings in Haunting Ground (at least from what I remember). On the other hand Hewie is more involved gameplay-wise (as well as being an obvious marketing tool).
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MrMasonW2DS


ReijiKido99
Sep 3 2008, 07:13:54 PM
I would like to add, though, that it always seemed like Hewie in Haunting Ground was basically the equivalent of Alyssa's Rooder powers in CT3. Without these two things, both heroines would be defenseless against their respective attackers, and yet with them they are able to overcome all.

The main difference here is that the Rooder portion of CT3 is much more involved in the game's plot, while Hewie has little to do with most of the happenings in Haunting Ground (at least from what I remember). On the other hand Hewie is more involved gameplay-wise (as well as being an obvious marketing tool).

That's a very good observation...Hewie, a less fantastical way to give a would-be helpless heroine a fighting chance. All things considered, if it really is a what-might-have-been, Capcom found such brilliant ways to translate each aspect, I think.
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