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| Trying out the Blink errata | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 22 2009, 04:42 AM (425 Views) | |
| Shadowtrooper | Jun 22 2009, 04:42 AM Post #1 |
Imperial Member
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Ok so it occurred to me that instead of asking the council to test out the suggested errata on Blink I could do it myself. I wanted to try it out with EvilDaves build but that deck morphed so much during the threads of Realms that I don't even know what his build looks like anymore so I used the following build: 4 Proteus 4 Sage 2 Mimic (2 drop) 2 Mystique 4 Blink (3 drop) 4 Miguel 4 Albert 3 Shadowcat 4 Mariko 1 Proudstar 4 Mobilize 4 A Finer World 4 Warp Shard 4 Beak Saves the Day 4 Clash of Worlds 4 Common Bond 4 Panoptichron I played these games doing Solitaries trying to Goldfish wins on turn 4 at all times. I played the same deck without changes, and I did 3 runs for all the errata tried out. Results to follow. Tests to be done. Edited by Shadowtrooper, Jun 23 2009, 04:09 PM.
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| Shadowtrooper | Jun 22 2009, 04:42 AM Post #2 |
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Imperial Member
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1st set of testing. Like all experiments I went out and started by doing a control test for the deck. Control Test - NO ERRATA Game 1: On turn 4 I managed 42 points of burn damage with 3 Mariko and a total of 7 characters. I also had 1 Warp Shard and 1 Common Bond ready for use. Result = Turn 4 win. Game 2: On turn 4 I managed 28 burn damage with Mariko. 7 characters out with 2 Warp Shards and 1 Common Bond ready to use. Result = Turn 4 win Game 3: On turn 4 I managed 32 burn damage with 2 Mariko having 8 characters in play. One Common Bond in hand ready for use would of been enough to seal the deal. Result = Turn 4 win NOTE: Nothing really new here, even with so so draws the deck can win on 4. This deck is consistency galore. Edited by Shadowtrooper, Jun 22 2009, 05:06 AM.
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| Shadowtrooper | Jun 22 2009, 04:42 AM Post #3 |
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Imperial Member
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Second batch of testing. TESTED ERRATA -Blink's come into play effect triggering only if another copy of the character card hasn't come into play that turn under your control. Game 1 - Deck couldn't get a win on 4 no matter how hard I tried. Game went to 5 where 10 characters came into play with Mariko dealing 80 points of burn. Also had 2 Warp Shards and 1 Common Bond. Result = Turn 5 win Game 2 - By turn 4 I still managed to get 8 characters out. 3 of them Mariko to take burn damage up to 46. 1 Common Bond in hand ready to use. Result = Turn 4 win. Game 3 - By turn 4 I had 7 charcaters out, Mariko managed 28 points of burn. I had 2 Warp Shards and 2 Common Bonds. Result = Turn 4 win NOTE: Limiting Blink at once per turn didn't really hurt as long as I managed to use Panoptichron and Proteus wisely. Being able to get the free shift counters on 3 and on 4 still allows for easy wins on turn 4. However if we miss blink by turn 3 like it happened on game 1 the deck can't win by 4. Edited by Shadowtrooper, Jun 22 2009, 06:05 AM.
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| Shadowtrooper | Jun 22 2009, 04:42 AM Post #4 |
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Imperial Member
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Tested errata - Beak Saves the Day only during the Combat Phase. Game 1 - Trun 4 I had 7 characters in play with 2 Mariko taking damage up to 24. 0 Common Bonds but 3 Warp Shards to clear the board of any opposition. Result = Turn 4 win. Game 2 - By turn 4 I had 7 characters yet again, with 1 Mariko for 12 burn, as I couldn't get Proteus out by lack of Panoptichron. (Useless Beak Saves the Day in hand could of made for another 12 burn with a counter by Proteus) 1 Common Bond in hand got the damage needed anyway after Warp Shard eliminated threats. Result = Turn 4 win Game 3 - Awful draw. Had to use search for Blink, and didn't get a Mariko until turn 5 when I drew 1 and searched for another. On turn 5 enough characters managed to get a win by Mariko burn and Warp Shards cleaning house. Result = Turn 5 win Note: With this errata the trick is to use Beak Saves the Day as you would normally use Warp Shards on turn 3 so that you get to use Blink on turn 3 and 4. This allows for Warp Shards to be saved for removing opposing characters. This errata however really screws with Sage and Mariko as I could of drawn and burned for more if I could of used BStD during my build phase as was the case with game #2. Edited by Shadowtrooper, Jun 22 2009, 05:57 AM.
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| Shadowtrooper | Jun 22 2009, 04:43 AM Post #5 |
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Imperial Member
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Tested Errata = Blink's trigger only as a Recruited Effect (Went with a little more detail in a few of the games) Game 1 - Turn 1 - I shifted a Miguel. Turn 2 - played Proyeus and gave Miguel a counter. Turn 3 - Remove counter from Miguel searched for Blink with A Finer World Shifted out a Mariko and a Shadowcat + Proudstar. Use Proteus chained with Panoptichron. Miguel gets 2 counters Proteus 1. Shift in Miguel and use ability to tie up opposing drop. Turn 4 - Recruit Blink. Bring in Miguel and Proteus. Activate Proteus for S.Cat and bring her in. Use Panoptichron on Protus Bring in Proudstar. Shadowcat activates for Mariko getting 10 burn damage. Use Beak and last resource point for another 10 burn. In the end I had 5 characters and 1 Warp Shards left. adding up the attack of the characters and asuming I Warpe Sharded opposing 4 drop I ended up doing from 45 to 47 Damage depending on the 3 drops DEF. ![[yikes]](http://209.85.48.22/9050/5/0/e204/e204.gif) Result = Win on turn 5Game 2 - This wasn't nearly as exiting. Had to tie up with Miguel on turns 3 and 4 so I could get to a turn 5 where I did 20 Burn with Mariko while having 5 characters. 1 Common Bond and 1 Warp Shards ready for use. Result = Plausible win on 5 Game 3 - By turn 4 all I could manage was 16 points of Burn with Mariko using Shadowcat + Mimic to copy Shadowcat while using Beak Saves the Day to reuse Mariko and shift her out. Had 2 Warp Shards and 1 Common Bond ready for use. By removing turn 4 and 3 I could only managed 40 points of damage, 10 shy of the mark. I could of used Warp Shard on my own characters to set up for the turn 5 kill so I'll say this is a win. Result = win on 5 Notes: Had to get more creative than usual with Shadowcat and actually search for Mimic to rally up more troops as he copies her ability. Proteus and Panoptichron interactions really help with this errata. All in all I never managed to get the turn 4 kill but I did manage to cause enough damage on 4 to ensure a win on 5. Edited by Shadowtrooper, Jun 22 2009, 03:18 PM.
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| Shadowtrooper | Jun 22 2009, 05:58 AM Post #6 |
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Imperial Member
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Test = Banned Blink. (Use 1 drop Blink instead of the 3 drop so that I could still use Warp Shards and not make more than 4 changes to the deck list.) Again a little more details on some of the games. Game 1 - Turn 1 Draw 4 - Proteus, Mariko, Cat, Warp Shards Draw 2 - Panoptichron + Sage Resource Warp Shards shift Cat out. Turn 2- Draw 2 - Clash + Mariko Play Panoptichron as resource, recruit Proteus activate on Cat. Turn 3 - Draw 2 - Albert + Common Bond Resource Clash. Shift Albert + Sage + Mariko with 1 counter each. Activate Proteus and chain in Panoptichron. Albert gets 2 counters and Proteus 1. Didn't shift in Albert so I had 0 board presence. I did this because I was aiming at doing lots of burn with Mariko Turn 4 - Draw 2 - Panoptichron + Sage Panoptichron as resource. Pay 3 resources to put shift counters on Mariko, Shadowcat, and Proteus. Shift into play Albert, Cat and Proteus. Activate Proteus on Sage chaining Panoptichron and giving 2 counters to Mariko. Bring in Mariko putting her effect on the chain and bringing in Sage to get the extra draw. I draw 4 cards. A Sage, Beak Saves the Day, Mobilize and A Finer World. Shift 2nd Mariko out with last resource point, and play Clash on Mariko. Activate Cat to bring in second Mariko. Both Mariko resolve for 12 damage each. I had a Common Bond which could of boosted the attack of Albert and the 2 Mariko to 9 each for a total of 27 ATK. Adding that to the 24 burn would of taken damage up to 51 but with the opposing drops DEF and a possible reinforcement I don't think a win on 4 would of been possible even if Sage had gone straight to the face. Result = win on 5 Game 2 - This game was horrid so I will save myself the turn by turn. I had an awful hand, and no search. Never got Proteus. Stalled on 3 and 4 with Miguel but I wasn't even able to get a win on 5. This game would of been a loss against any deck. Result = Loss Game 3 - Turn 1 - Draw 4 - Albert, Cat, Panoptichron and A Finer World Draw 2 - Sage and Warp Shards. Place Panopt. and shifted Albert Turn 2 - Draw 2 - Mariko + Panopt. Resource A Finer World, then Shifted Sage + Cat Turn 3 - Draw 2 - Miguel + Mystique Resource Warp Shards. Reomve shift from Sage and play A Finer World searching for Proteus. Recruit Proteus. Activate Proteus chaining Panoptichron for Albert taking him to 3 counters and Proteus gets 1. Use last resource on Proteus and bring him into play activating for Cat. Turn 4 - Draw 2 - Warp Shards + Blink Panopt. as resource. Pat 1 resource to put the 3rd counter on Cat. Activate Proteus and chain Panopt. taking Sage to 2 counters and Proteus to 1. Pay second resource on Proteus. Pay 3rd resource point to shift Mariko out. Shift in Proteus, Albert and Cat. Use last resource to shift out and then in. Blink rallies and gets another Blink. Bring in Blink and KO Blink for uniqueness, get 2nd Mariko. Use Cat on Mariko and chain her effect with Sage. Burn for 12 and draw 5 cards = 3 characters, 1 Common Bond and 1 Clash. Use Clash on Mariko then flip second Panopt. and activate on Proteus giving 2 counters on 2nd Mariko. Clash on Mariko and cause another 12 burn taking the total up to 24. I end up with 1 Albert, 2 Mariko, 1 Blink, 1 Sage and an exhausted Cat. I also have 2 Warp Shards and 1 Common Bond. Between Common Bond and my 3 ready 3 cost characters I get 27 ATK. 2 Warp Shards can clear the board of the 4 and 3 drops leaving only the 2 drop to deal with this madness. Result = Win on 4 Notes: I really got lucky on that last game getting a second copy of Mariko thanks to Blink's rally. I was tempted to play Clash on Blink so I could keep a bigger board but with so many 3 drops left between Mariko and Cat I risked it even though I could of ended with a Miguel or Albert who don't care much for uniqueness. Needless to say it payed off. Proteus and Panoptichron interactions in both the 3rd and 4th turn are key in keeping the deck alive, but with so many good resource disruptions in the game I don't think the deck will have Panoptichron on turns 3 and 4. I was amazed to see the deck can preform so well even without Blink. I feel like the deck can receive a good help by M'Kraan Crystals to reuse some of the resource points spent on Cat after she has activated though IU don't know how that will affect the consistency of the deck. I don't think it will hinder it that much and since we can draw into it with Sage we shouldn't need to run 4 copies. In the second game I really got a bad draw, even if I would of had Blink in the deck it wouldn't of made much of a difference. In all honesty banning Blink didn't prove to do much good to slow down Exiles significantly. I don't even know what to say except that banning Blink is not the solution everyone thought it would be. Edited by Shadowtrooper, Jun 22 2009, 05:24 PM.
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| Shadowtrooper | Jun 22 2009, 05:58 AM Post #7 |
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Imperial Member
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Tested Errata - Blink, Mariko and Sage with the following texts: "When Blink enters play, put a shift counter on each shifted card you own unless another copy of this card entered play under your control this turn." “Whenever Sage enters play, draw a card for each other character you control that entered play this turn unless another copy of this card entered play under your control this turn.” “Whenever Mariko Yashida enters play, each opponent loses 2 endurance for each character you control that entered play this turn unless another copy of this card entered play under your control this turn.” Game 1 - By turn 4 the only thing that I could manage was to have a Proteus, Blink, Miguel and Mimic. I could of brought a Mariko into play and cause 10 burn but I didn't have a Sage for extra draw. I didn't have a single copy of Warp Shards or Common Bond so I saved bullets for the next turn as I couldn't muster a win on 4. I would of tied the board with Miguel and Mimic. Turn 5 came along and I got my Sage with a copy of Beak Saves the Day. Miguel, Mimic, Sage and Mariko come into play with the company of Shadowcat and a Panptichron removed Proteus. Mariko does 12 damage Sage draws me 5 cards. Only useful card was a Common Bond. I got another Beak Saves the Day, Mariko and Clash which at this point I was finding useless for the burn I could of caused if I shifted out Mariko and brought her in with Shadowcat. I really don't think that the deck could of have won on 5 specially if it didn't have the initiative. However if it did have the initiative I think it could of taken out the opposing board rather easily even though it didn't have enough to win the game there. Result = wouldn't really know. Game 2 - Best I could do by turn 4 was to cause 6 points of burn by bringing out a Blink Sage and Mariko. I had Warpshards which I used on Mariko, then used Beak Saves the Day to get Blink back before the recovery phase. Turn 5 Proteus and Panoptichron tricks got me 2 counters on a new Sage and a Mistique who grew to 5/4, not much but better than her printed stats. Then I brought in Blink and 3 Alberts. After that Sage linked to Mariko for 14 burn and a few extra cards. Had 2 Common Bonds and a Warp Shards. Result = win on turn 5. Game 3 - Best I could do by turn 4 was to have 6 characters, of which 5 were brought in that turn. Mariko did 10 burn and I still had a way to do 10 more because of a Beak Saves the Day and extra resource from Proteus. I had a Warp Shards and a Common Bond but since I had to exhaust Cat and Mimic to get characters into play the best move was to use Warp Shards and Beak to get some characters shifted out for the next turn as I wouldn't of gotten a kill. So I stalled with Miguel, used Warp Shards on Blink and Beak Saves the Day on Mariko. Next turn Mariko did another 12 burn after I drew another Cat and a Mobilize to search for an Albert. That gave me enough 3 drop characters for an effective Common Bond. Result = win on 5. Notes: Having the 3 ladies with errata really slows down the deck effectively by a whole turn, or like on game 1 perhaps even more. There really is no way to win on 4 when Mariko can't cause double burns, or when Sage doesn't draw with a fury. This errata makes it so that Beak Saves the Day is a card that you will just won't want to use on the build phase as it just becomes useless for double shift counters, double burn or double draws, which I think makes the card work as intended without actually having to make an errata on the card. Another thing I noticed was that with these errata I felt like the only real purpose that Clash of Worlds brings to the table is to have an extra body for the attack since the benefit of Mariko's burn and Sage's draw can't be seen. As with the errata of having Blinks power be a recruit only effect this really doesn't stop that much the number of characters that can be brought into play, the real difference is in the draw and burn. I mean I found myself discarding Clash for Common Bond or Mobilize at some points of the game. It's just easier to get another Albert than to try and get a Mariko as with Albert you can potentially get him shifted out with 2 counters so that you can either get him into play next turn or use the counters for Mystique. Edited by Shadowtrooper, Jun 23 2009, 03:57 PM.
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| EvilDave | Jun 22 2009, 11:11 AM Post #8 |
Senior Member
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Good report; I'd personally drop 1 Mystique and 1 Mimic for 2 Call in A Favors; but that's sometimes overkill (you only use it if you have to in order to go off; I hate letting opponents search for free; but if opponent isn't playing Exiles I consider myself always coming out ahead in the deal). Anyway, this was the next step the council needed to take to figure out what could be done :). |
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| Orange_Soda_Man | Jun 22 2009, 03:26 PM Post #9 |
I'm "dreamy"
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great thread! Just something I noticed on game 2 of the recruit test, if you're doing 45-47 END on 4 then there's a decent chance that your opponent will be at 0 or less because of END payment effects or even just the combat of their 2-drop into your 2-drop on turn 2. Not that this discounts anything at all. Keep up the good work! &happybday |
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| Trader2699 | Jun 22 2009, 04:04 PM Post #10 |
Senior Member
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Nicely done, look forward to reading the other reports. |
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| Shadowtrooper | Jun 22 2009, 05:23 PM Post #11 |
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Imperial Member
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Only one more errata to try out and thats my suggestion since the beginning of this journey. I know pretty well what will happen since thats the way I play with them to keep a bit of fairness with them, but I will still go and test it out for you guys. |
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| EvilDave | Jun 22 2009, 05:50 PM Post #12 |
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Senior Member
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I think what your article really proved is that Exiles is still viable without Blink/with errataed Blink to recruit. Which is good. They still have a LOT of powerful engines. They still are the most consistant deck. But I think the draws you had with these setups were "reasonable", meaning many, many decks would fall to these... but some decks, like Cyclops-based X-Factor (without the multiple man sillyness) or Doom could actually keep up, and it just becomes a VERY GOOD deck with backup-burn plan (a la Shield). That's better than them making them totally non-viable... really that's exactly what we're looking for. The next step would be to take these erratas and try winning some games vs some of the better decks of the various formats. |
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| Shadowtrooper | Jun 22 2009, 06:14 PM Post #13 |
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You are correct Dave, the deck just has to many powerful engines to keep things going and going. Mariko + Beak, Sage + Beak, Proteus + Panopt., Shadowcat and 1 measly shift counter, Mimic copying Shadowcat or Proteus, No uniqueness on Albert and Miguel, and so forth. It is just ridiculous. I truly believe that if these games were played against some other decks then some of these errata might of have worked better, but Exiles could of managed a win anyways. In some games I know decks like SHIELD Burn, MKKO, ARR, and even Society Complex would of have managed a win with some trouble to a lot of trouble, but that doesn't take away the fact that the dread of what Exiles can do is still present. With it alone some players will feel like they are playing against the clock and that could lead to a mistake thus making the job for Exiles that much easier. I have been telling people for a long time starting in Realms, TCG and then here that Blink alone is not the problem. Even if I can only bring in 5 characters instead of 7 on turn 4 it still means Mariko will take from 10 to 20 endurance points, and Sage will net you from 4 to 8 cards. Thats enough to get the Common Bonds needed or the Warp Shards needed to simply wipe out the opposing boards, or enough of a dent in the endurance to guarantee a victory. If I choose to take a hit on the 4th turn and save my bullets for turn 5 I can get an easy victory from Mariko's burn alone as she can produce burn in the 80's range. For those of you keeping track thats 3 Messiah Complexes used on Beyonder by a Society Complex deck + starting endurance. I don't think Society Complex can manage that much endurance gain consistently while the Exiles can do it. I'm off today to celebrate my B-Day with my girl. Hopefully if I don't die of alcohol intoxication or have a massive hangover I will be back tomorrow to post up the results of the final errata. And no that I'm off at 2:30 PM to start celebrating my B-Day does not make me an alcoholic. ![[grin2]](http://209.85.48.22/9050/5/0/e227/e227.gif) |
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| KardKrazy | Jun 22 2009, 06:25 PM Post #14 |
Badge of Unsound Mind
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I shared this deck with Trooper last night and it can definitely manage Turn 5 wins through burn and attack. Then to add to it, it is rather consistent. Notice there is not a single 3-Drop Blink in the deck as I treated it as though she is banned. This deck also shows that if we just banned 3-Drop Blink and did not touch Mariko and Sage exiles are still viable without being over the top. // Lands 4 [MEV] Panoptichron {MEV} // Creatures 4 [MEV] Shadowcat <> Cat - Earth-Unknown {MEV} 1 [MEV] Heather Hudson <> Sasquatch - Earth-3470 {MEV} 1 [MEV] John Proudstar <> Thunderbird - Earth 1100 * War {MEV} 4 [MEV] Mariko Yashida <> Sunfire - Earth-2109 {MEV} 2 [MEV] Miguel O'Hara <> Spider-Man - Earth-6375 {MEV} 4 [MEV] Mimic - Earth-42 {MEV} 2 [MEV] Mystique <> Mystiq - Earth-797 {MEV} 1 [MEV] Rogue - Earth-1009 {MEV} 3 [MEV] Sage - Earth-616 {MEV} 4 [MEV] Blink - Earth-295 {MEV} 4 [MEV] Albert - Earth-50211 {MEV} 4 [MEV] Proteus - Earth-58163 {MEV} // Spells 4 [MEV] Beak Saves the Day {MEV} 4 [DLS] Mobilize {DLS} 4 [MEV] Warp Shards {MEV} 4 [MEX] Common Bond {MEX} 2 [MEV] A Finer World {MEV} 4 [DCX] A Clash Of Worlds {DCX} It probably can be improved on but this is the best version I have come up with so far. later, Kj P.S: You pretty much play it just like you would have a Dr. Light deck back in the day. Edited by KardKrazy, Jun 22 2009, 06:41 PM.
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| KardKrazy | Jun 22 2009, 06:38 PM Post #15 |
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Badge of Unsound Mind
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Sorry the deck I posted like 5 minutes was the original one I showed Troop but I meant to say also that the deck I just edited in is the more superior one I came up with:p. later, Kj P.S: I have to say though that Trooper's deck is just a hair more consistent on winning on 5. I also want to say to you Trooper that your trial run of having 3-Drop Blink went like it should. So the deck had a god turn on 4 and won. Other decks do this, the fact though that you had to get lucky for it to happen means it is showing promise that with 3-Drop Blink banned they are realistically good. Before with her not banned an opponent would be so far in the negatives by turn 4 that it was unfeasible that they could pull a win out. Your test run with her being banned actually makes me feel more to the fact that it is the correct thing to do. Edited by KardKrazy, Jun 22 2009, 06:53 PM.
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